hitlesswonder

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 04:44 PM) I think Scott Suggs and Paul Williams are 2 very distinct possibilities. I really hope they get Jennings, that fills the star of the class and the big, but if not I have no idea who the big or 3rd guy is, and pickings are starting to get slim overall. What a shocker though in regards to a Bruce class, it's getting late to have no verbals. Other rumors...Iman Shumpert trimmed his list to 5 and droppped UI (the finalists are UNC, Clemson, GTech, Marquette, and Bradley). Speaking of Suggs, he reportedly has offers from Florida and Kansas and wants to visit Kansas before making a verbal commitment. Finally, from the Suntimes, Jereme Richmond on his commitment to UI: It's safe to say this was not a good week for UI basketball.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 18, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) I don't know how anyone can look at these Sox with 20-20 hindsight and say they had a chance. This is just an awful team, and neither a couple bullpen arms nor an act of God could get them into the WS this year. I agree -- it's not like the bullpen is the only hole on the team. The offense is terrible. Half the starting lineup consists of AAA players. And to get decent relievers that early in the season would have cost players like Egbert, Gonzalez or Sweeney.

QUOTE(bigred3535 @ Jul 18, 2007 -> 04:10 AM) That's a ridiculous proposal. People need to stop thinking that other teams are going to hand us good players for our crap! Rosenthal has article up today about how teams value prospects a lot more, even overvalue, given the FA market prices for talent. Olney recently mentioned that Arod, traded as a rental, would bring back 2 B prospects. I think the only players on the Sox that would bring back a significant return are Jenks, Danks, Vazquez, and Garland. So, I agree that a trade proposal that suggests trading someone like Contreras for a real prospect, let alone and all-star talent like Hudson, isn't realistic. Honestly, Contreras is essentially untradeable right now. If the Sox kicked in half his salary I think they might be able to move him for essentially nothing in return. It still might be worth doing that.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 09:46 PM) If Kenny can pull off deals for youth by rebuilding around our core starting pitching (minus Contreras), I'll be thrilled. But I'll be surprised if he could get more than a bag of balls for what he has to offer other teams now. In the offseason, he'll be in much better position to deal. We'll see what teams offer closer to the deadline. It's possible nothing will happen, but it's also certainly possible that a team will decide going for it is worth giving up some decent prospects. Seattle, for example, is a team with a big payroll that is not afraid to deal prospects and needs a starter. You probably can't get Jones, but Clement and/or Balentine(sp?) should be on the table. And Garland could bring that kind of package back. If Contreras were to have two decent starts maybe they'd even deal Clement for him. Who knows what Bavavsi will do. I also would not be surprised to see Thornton, Logan, or Mack moved. All have value, are not real expensive and could bring back a B-/C+ prospect or two. The Dodgers, Atlanta and possibly the Mets are also teams that may shop for pitching. The Dodgers are less attached to their prospects than other organizations, so they might cave in as well. I do agree the Sox shouldn't sell low on anyone really -- there's no reason they can't wait till the offseason to deal Contreras and/or Garland. There are only 2 players they should move now: 1) Dye. Assuming the Sox won't offer arbitration they won't get picks for him. So, anything would be better than nothing. He could probably pull a C prospect from some team. They Sox might want to consider offering arb though, even if Dye accepts they could still hope he hits better next season and they can flip him for more. He wouldn't be blocking any significant prospect. 2) Iguchi. I like Iguchi a lot, but it's clear that Richar will be starting next season at 2B. Iguchi's contract somehow prevents the Sox from getting compensation picks I think, so moving him now for anything is probably better than getting nothing. He might be a candidate for a post-deadline waiver trade. In any case, I wish him the best.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 01:19 PM) I think $7 mil is not a bad number given the current This is the the team that didn't want to risk David Riske accepting a deal around $2M or $3M. I don't think they'll be offering arbitration to Jermaine if there's any chance at all that he'll take it....

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) But if he pitches like he just has most of the time, he really could be a very solid #3 pitcher. This season Vazquez's numbers match up well with Sabathia, Bonderman, and Daisuke. And since the beginning of August 2006 he has an ERA of 3.73, 9 K per 9, 2.3 BB per 9 with 165 hits in 193 innings in the AL with home games at the Cell. I'm not sure at all that he'll keep this up, but he's had almost a full season of pitching like one of the top 15 starting pitchers in the AL. If he pitches like that, he's much better than a solid #3.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 07:43 PM) Standing past is absolutely ridiculous. It honestly upsets me to even think about the possibility of not trading any starting pitcher. Wait till the deadline. I think Williams will. Maybe teams would like to see Garland's next start be good before dealing for him. And it's possible Williams could wait till the offseason before dealing Garland and/or Contreras and/or Vazquez. Th only reasons for the Sox trade now would be: 1) Getting something for Iguchi or Dye before they leave (and the market probably isn't great for either) 2) If someone offered a good package for a picther. The Sox aren't really under any time pressure except for dealing Iguchi and Dye. KW might wait on Contreras and hope he resurrects his trade value a little bit. And he might make it through waivers after the deadline. Anyway, I'm sure you'll see some deals but the big one(s) may wait till the offseason if KW doesn't like the return.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) Anyone care to guess the amount? 5/70 will be my guess. I would guess around 5/90...which is fine because that means there will be no doubt about the Sox inability to sign him if he had become a free agent.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 03:41 PM) let me be the first to say it on the new thread... weber can't recruit. On that note...Matt Humphrey and Michael Dunigan are strongly rumored to be headed to Oregon and UNC has offered Iman Shumpert.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 04:45 AM) I know it's a rough sketch, but does it work for anyone? Are we better wit that lineup out there? That's worse than this year's team. Probably a last place team in the Central. Paying Rowand $9M a year is simply crazy. If that's what you were illustrating, job well-done! As far as likely roster moves go, I agree Ichiro! won't be coming to a team unlikely to contend, he'll get more than $13M per year, and the Sox aren't interested in paying even that much to a single player. Getting Ichiro is completely unrealistic. I really think that one of Garland & Vazquez will be gone. And I think the Sox will give Crede a shot at 3B to see if he's healthy enough to flip at the deadline. I think the bench is pretty realistic if you replace Anderson with Terrero. It will be one of the worst in baseball, but very cheap at least....

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 11:18 AM) I'm not positive on how the compensation works...but I think he has to be top 10 at his position to get the two picks. They use two years I think...so I wouldn't bet that he's a sure thing for compensation. I do like your 4-6 mill with incentives idea. But as for Ichiro, Jones, Rowand, Hunter? I suspect they will all be way more expensive than $8 mill per. It is 2 years. Dye is virtually assured of being a 2 pick FA. The real question is whether or not the Sox will offer arbitration (I think they'd be foolish not, but they don't seem to like to do it). I agree that Dye will be light years better than Sweeney hitting next season. The Sox definitely need to acquire at least one OF for next season. But I think Dye is too risky to commit to, assuming he'd want a 3 year deal at $8M per year. I could be wrong -- maybe he's just hurt this season and will come back strong. But I'd rather see the Sox try to bring in either a younger OF or a CF that could leadoff.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:10 AM) J there's no real reason to believe that he won't bounce back and be more like a .290/35 homer guy with pretty good defense. JD next year at $8 instead of Ichiro at $15? So many on the board are talking about some teams top prospect or just waiting to collect two number one's for him. But what if the option is neither...he walks and we get nothing. Getting nothing would be better than signing Dye to a bad contract. Dye has been one of the best FA signings I've ever seen. But his defense is obviously deteriorating. I don't know if it's injury or age, but I think he can't play RF anymore really. And .290/35HR would be the 2nd or 3rd best season of his career (it would be a .900 OPS season). That's real unlikely to happen. If no one wants to trade anything remotely useful for him, play him the rest of the season and hope he does well enough that the Sox can offer arbitration and get draft picks.

QUOTE(joesaiditstrue @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 04:25 AM) we needed javier to be good when we were still in contention in 2006, and he wasn't very good until the later part of the 2nd half On August 5 2006 the Sox had record of 65 and 43 and were a half game up for the wildcard. Vazquez had 13K, 1 run in 8 IP start at TOR. That started a 12 game run from then till the end of the season with him posting a 3.86 ERA. He pitched well while the Sox were still in contention. I don't buy the "he only pitches well when it doesn't matter" theory. QUOTE(LDF @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 04:54 AM) the old adage, trade when the market is high, right now the market be at the highest it has every been for javy, taking his past into consideration. That might true -- obviously if Vazquez could bring back a great package like Salty and Escobar or Kemp, Hu and a reliever the Sox should do it. But if those offers aren't on the table, I think they should keep Vazquez. Even if he's just a 4.5 ERA pitcher form here on out, 200IP of that in the AL and Cell is worth his contract. The Sox would actually be hard-pressed to find someone to perform like that for cheaper. If Garland has reasonable trade value, I'd rather see the shorter contract moved.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:26 PM) No thanks. He'll be getting similar money to Ichiro, why not just go after him? Suzuki would fill a few wholes on this team, including the most important of them all, leadoff. Other than that, I REALLY don't want to see Torii Hunter given a 4 year $48M deal by the Sox. That would come back to bight 'em in the ass within 2 years. He'll be 32 next season and has a .324 career OBP. Given his defense and .795 career OPS in CF, he's undoubtably a a good player. But I don't think he'll be worth anywhere near his contract. To me, the Sox would be better off signing a CF that could leadoff or using the money Hunter would command to fill multiple other positions (e.g. cheaper LF/RF and bullpen help).

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 08:47 PM) If the Sox can find a way to ink Garland to an extension then I'd have no problem with Vazquez being dealt but if Garland is going to be traded sometime soon or walks after '08 I think Vazquez needs to stick around as the #2 starter. So I guess this is pretty simple from my standpoint. Garland Extended = Trade Vazquez (if there's a GREAT offer out there) Garland Traded = Vazquez Stays I agree with that to the extent that if Garland is willing to sign a below market. The Vazquez contract is better than Buehrle's. I would expect Garland to ask for more. I still like the idea of dealing Garland to the Dodgers and keeping Vazquez. I know a lot of posters really dislike Vazquez but he's closing in on a full season of pitching very well. Since August 5 2006 he's got a 3.77 ERA in 184 innings with 9 K per 9 and 2.4 BB per 9. In the AL and the Cell, that's very good. Maybe it's a mirage, but I'd rather keep Vazquez than Garland.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 09:43 AM) McCarthy isn't exactly lighting it up these days. I remember when everyone called for KW's head then, but I take Danks all day. Not to mention Masset as a nice throw in. I didn't say anything about McCarthy being better than Danks...read what I wrote. I was talking about the fact that Gammons reported McCarthy was one of 2 minor league players supposed to go from Chicago to Boston in addition to Ordonez. I don't know if it's true, but if it is Boston picked out probably the most valuable player in the Sox system then. It's an unsettling idea. As for McCarthy, he pitched very well against Baltimore in his last start. It's too early to know which guy will be the better pitcher, but it certainly looks like a decent trade for the Sox if only because Danks has less service time. Masset:7.34 ERA 2.00 WHIP .329 BAA. 20/25 K/BB ratio. What do you see that I don't?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 09:17 AM) At this point, we just have to hope KW surprises us by who he acquires in the trade. It's going to be Pods...I mean Ellsbury. It's destiny. Maybe something like Buehrle and minor leaguers for Ellsbury. I shudder at the thought of the Red Sox scouts picking over the Sox system. They almost got McCarthy as a throw in in the scuttled Ordonez-Nomar trade. You just know they'll evaluate the Sox system better than the Sox themselves (maybe De Los Santos will be the throw-in this time).

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 08:23 AM) The twins will be in the same spot with santanna soon. He is as good as gone, but he is a guy I break the bank for and give the no trade clause. Not signing Buehrle because he's not Santana is silly. Santana will command $20M per season in the open market. Are the Sox going to sign him? a $160M contract with a NTC. That's beyond laughable. And don't count the Twins out yet. They may let him go, but Santan has said he'd explore a hometown discount and they'll have a new ballpark and they have always been willing to sign their own top free agents (like Kirby).

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:57 PM) Because right now he is 15 million of our payroll on a close to last place team. Trade him. And that's $15M at a position that shouldn't be hard to fill with an .800 OPS player for much less (at least for a competent organization). That's what, a loss of .060 OPS points to save $13M? I'd be OK with that if I trusted the organization to find that .800 OPS player and do something smart with the saved money.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:48 PM) Even though I'm mad now, I'll be ok with everything if we get good value in return. Look at the rumors and I think you can see what KW wants: a young leadoff hitter to satisfy Guillen's desire for speed at the top. They obviously asked for Ellsbury and Theo responded by suggesting a package including Julio Lugo (who formerly had leadoff skills). I just have a feeling they'll end up with a AAA version of Pods...it's not a good feeling.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) It's pretty sad when a big market team can't sign a pitcher to a massive discount. The Sox are not a big market team. They are afraid to play the same game the big teams do (dealing with Boras, paying out overslot money for picks, pursuing big-name free agents).

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) If it's true the Sox declined that extra year option if he was traded, then they obviously don't want him on the team for the next four years. I'm baffled why the Sox are doing this. I can see two possibilities: 1) The Sox think they will sign a top-line free agent this offseason and they need the payroll flexibility to do it. 2) The Sox think their scouting is so good that they can find a cheap starter comparable to Buehrle easily. They may feel they already have that and that a rotation of Garland-Vazquez-Danks-Gonzalez-Floyd will be playoff caliber. In either case, I think they are delusional. They may pursue a free agent, but in the end they won't have the spine to pony up market price. Second, their scouting blows and that rotation would as well. So to sum up, I think the Sox are overestimating their own abilities in deciding they can do better than Buehrle. That's not good -- a man has to know his limitations.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) But don't you look at this like Rosenthal did? That this is too close for no deal to happen? There just seem to be so many potential compromises, if Mark is willing to accept some trade risk, that allow the Sox to save face, too. How can this not happen? The Sox simply don't want to sign him, that's how it will not happen. This whole thing was initiated by Buehrle and leaked to the media so that the Sox had to deal with it. Their way of dealing with it is to use the NTC as an excuse to not sign him. I think the Sox position is that he is simply not worth signing to the proposed deal. It makes sense when you have a stable of young major league ready starters like Gavin Floyd waiting in the wings....at least from the Sox perspective.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jul 7, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) Trade him... It's over, we need to get something for him. I'm done with the drama, and against the majority here, I am not in favor of giving the NTC. Too much risk, and gives too much power to the player. It's not just about the Sox being able to trade him, but what's over looked is that if MB decides he wants to be traded (since the team may very well struggle a few years) he has complete control of who he goes to, and the Sox are stuck getting little in return. Have fun watching Gavin Floyd every 5 days next year. Plus whatever rookie or retread takes Contreras' slot. Good pithcing is hard to find, and the 4 year deal for Buehrle isn't that big of a risk. KC signed Meche, but the Sox won't take this risk....

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 6, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) He's not starting on my team. He's playing the Ozuna role instead, while given Hudson ample time off to keep him away from the DL. I wish you were the Sox GM