hitlesswonder

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 11:31 PM) Mark Beuhrle for a stiff like Pena and a B prospect is completely ridiculous. But you don't think anyone on the Sox has trade value: I believe you said we should trade Garland for 2 B prospects. Try some subtlety - you're too obvious. Theo has a much higher budget than the Sox (like far and away the 2nd highest in baseball) and not the strongest farm system himself. I didn't see Kenny Williams sign Julio Lugo for $25 mill (or whatever it was). Sickels had both Ellsbury and Bowden listed as B or B+ prospects coming into the year. Pena and either of those guys would be OK with me (not that anyone cares). I don't remember saying it, but if I said the Sox should trade Garland for 2 B prospects, I was wrong. He should be able to command an A prospect like Kemp plus something else from a contending team.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Which one of Lumsden and Cortes was an A level prospect? Granted MacDougal may not have been worth even that (he was pretty damn good for the Sox last year though) but its not like they got two of our top prospects. Sickels graded Lumsden as a B level prospect and Cortes didn't make the C level. The Sox system is so bare, I think it seemed like a lot talent to give up just because the Sox had so little to give. I think it was equitable trade. Mac is having the worst year of his career. Prior to that he had two very good years coming off an injury. And he has the "proven closer" tag. I don't think the Sox overpaid for him. If Thornton could get his ERA below 4 I think he could bring a B prospect back.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) epstein may be the most overrated gm in baseball. I don't see how you can say that. I'll take him over KW in a heartbeat. Look at the Sox minor league system and then look at Boston's. The Red Sox make the White Sox draft & development organization look like chumps. QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 02:21 PM) If you don't mind me asking, whose better? I suppose you could make the argument for Jermaine Dye, but given his age and the fact that in two months he'll be gone, Wily Mo Pena is better than anybody the White Sox can throw out there. Pena would be the best OF on the Sox in 2007. Probably would be in 2008 as well (Rowand-Erstad-Sweeney should be fun to watch..or not). I'd trade Buehrle for Pena and a B prospect. That would probably be a better package than the Sox will get. It's not a ridiculous proposal at all IMO. Buehrle is a 3 month rental, he doesn't have tremendous trade value.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) Yep, Masset was available to start tomorrow, but they're going with Floyd instead. I'd say there's about a 75 pct chance now that one of our starting pitchers is traded in the next 5 days. I wonder which starter this might be? Is anyone involved in stalled contract negotiations?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 5, 2007 -> 01:26 AM) If Buehrle is signed, I still expect Garland to be traded and I don't care what anyone says regarding their combined importance for the future. The same contract issue will probably be rehashed next season with Garland, and I know personally I'd be willing to trade Garland, accept a generous package, then look forwards the future with a rotation featuring Buehrle, Vazquez, Floyd, Danks, whomever. The Sox talk about the NTC only makes sense if they plan to try and sign Garland as well (who else would be in a situation similar enough to Buehrle that it could matter in negotiations?). Given that it's unlikely they sign Garland anyway, I would think they should just give Buehrle the NTC. If they have to choose between the 2, they fact is that Garland has more trade value if moved now. If the Sox believe the two will perform comparably over the next 4 years, the biggest return would be signing Buehrle and trading Garland. My prediction is that the Sox do the opposite, and trade Buehrle for a tepid return, try to sign Garland next season and fail and trade him for a limited return as well. The Sox MO with free agents is to "try" so very hard but fail sign to them and then bring a veteran coming off an injury signed cheaply to fill the hole instead...

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 4, 2007 -> 11:28 PM) Longoria isn't going anywhere, not with the way he's been hitting. Your'e right, he has been hitting -- I was looking at what he did in AA in 2006.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 4, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) The funny thing is, Tampa doesn't have a whole lot to trade us. Dukes is too much of a character issue, Baldelli is hurt too much, and they're not going to trade Upton or Young now. The only guy is Crawford, but that would make no sense at all. I can't see them trading Longoria or Brignac. The Sox don't have enough talent to trade for Crawford. I think Longoria could be possible. With Iwamura, Upton, and Brignac they may feel comfortable with their infield. Longoria isn't doing that well in AA. Sadly the most likely thing is Rocco. I'd be OK with taking on Baldelli if the trade was Contreras and money. But Buehrle or Vazquez and money seems like too much to give for a permanent DL resident. Given how much KW likes "buying low" on injured players, I have to think Rocco was the target.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 11:08 PM) pressure on the Sox to either cave in and give the NTC, or they'll look absolutely horrible in the Chicago media and to the fans. I dont' think Reinsdorf and Williams care how they look in the media or what the fans think. QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 11:12 PM) No clue...all I know is that they have very little in terms of prospects. Excellent, just the kind of players the Sox like to stock their system with!

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) I was erring on the side of caution. He's having a rock-solid year and is getting zero respect here. That's because people don't think that $12M a year for a 4.5 to 4.9 ERA is a good allocation of resources. I'd be happy if Vazquez ended up pitching up to his contract, but let's see what his numbers are this year and next. You don't spend that much money on a #4 starter. And $12M and losing Chris Young seems like a steep price to pay. I will agree he's having a decent year (3.95 in the Al and Cell isn't bad). But there are over 20 innings qualified pitchers ahead of him in ERA in the AL and almost all of them earn substantially less money.

Given how bad the Sox minor league system is and the fact that the Sox don't have the payroll flexibility or philosophical inclination to sign premier free agents, I doubt the Sox can compete in 2008 or 2009. Given that, I'd trade everybody that could bring a decent return except Danks. I would guess those players are Garland, Buehrle, Vazquez, and Jenks. Possibly Konekro. Contreras should get moved as well, but I doubt he'll bring much in return. The bottom line for all those players is that their contracts either expire before 2010 or they will likely no longer be effective by then. Either way, they aren't going to be an important part of the next contending team, so they should get moved for prospects. Garland, in particular, seems like a great fit for the Dodgers. They might be able to get Kemp for him.

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 09:53 AM) I gotta think there's a better alternative than Cedeno. Not in the White Sox system. I'd rather see Cedeno starting next season than Vizquel or Eckstein...

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 04:32 AM) Ryan Sweeney's away splits: .248-2-13 .248/.322/.333 in 105 ABs Yeah, impressive numbers. Good to see we're developing Sean Burroughs II. Burroughs was better.

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 11:38 PM) WHO f***ING CARES IF THEY ARE FORMER ROYALS? Still the most overused and meaningless reason for this team being s***ty. A s***ty player is a s***ty player, whether or not they played for the Royals. Newsflash: the Royals are eons more talented than we are. They should worry about having our trash. Oh yeah? Well look at Carlos Beltran! He blows! And Carl Crawford -- if he got traded he'd be a former Devil Ray so he would suck, too!

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) Devastating to what? Our uphill battle to get to .500 before end of the year? We have a bad lineup and terrible bullpen....please tell me Greg that you didn't start thinking this team was going to make up 11 games on Detroit and Cleveland? While I don't want the Sox to lose, every loss brings them closer to a higher draft choice. It may not matter, given the Sox scouting and magnetic repulsion from talented amateur players, but it's something. A win doesn't do anything for the organization.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) And I'll continue to agree with you. I personally love the $96M payroll. Probably Carlos Vasquez. Though he is a lefty. There are no good righties at Charlotte unless you want to put Broadway in the pen. Wassermann probably would be as good a choice as Vasquez. He can get righties out at least, although his control hasn't been good this season. Anyway, he'd be just as good a choice as Bukvich.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:08 PM) If he were consistently at 93-95 mph since 2005 it'd be different. But considering his past injury history and a continuous drop in velocity season to season (not to mention his second half struggles last year), I just can't assume it'll suddenly stop entering 2008. I think trading Jenks would be a good move. Not based on the fiasco tonight. Just becuase his stuff is steadily declining, the Sox won't compete in the next 3 years, and he would fetch a bunch in trade. Keeping him around serves no purpose.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) I'm scared though that they might think he can start at 2b or SS next year. Oh, I wouldn't worry. Ozzie clearly likes play Gonzalez in the OF. he has this fixation with playing people out of their natural position. Maybe because the Toby Hall experiment turned out so well. I do worry about the starting MI being Vizquel/Eckstein and Richar next season. Actually, I don't worry about about it. I anticipate it and almost want to see it happen just to witness how bad things can get.

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) Garcia is a solid prospect, 20 years old in AA, but Reyes is absolute garbage. Reyes used to be solid prospect, too. The Sox should target position prospects or pitchers that have had some degree of major league success.

QUOTE(whitesox1 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:53 PM) i hope this aint true...i expect a lot more back especially from the cardinals since they will almost for sure sign him to an extension The cards don't have a lot to give. I would guess Rasmus and Anderson would be their top 2 prospects. And both fill a position of need (CF and C), but neither are that close to the bigs.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) Erstad drew a walk every 14 AB, Terrero: 11.71, Gonzalez: 7.11 Terrero has a very HBP heavy OBP. It's ludicrous, but I'm actually excited about Andy Gonzalez. He may not be able to hit much, but he walks. I really think he can take Cintron's place as a utility guy next season and allow a few million to be used somewhere else. If he can just play semi-passable at SS and 2B. I'd like to see him play there more this season.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 07:13 PM) Sure there is -- dude can't even put up an .800 OPS in a tiny ballpark. I'd guess it would be more of the same as his first call-up -- pitcher's would pound him hard in-in-in. There's still some chance Sweeney could become a 4th OF. They might as well give him the at-bats at the major league level rather than Owens. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 07:43 PM) He's posted an .839 OPS in June. That's okay, but those numbers don't scream "call-up" to me. It'd be nice if his great tools actually started translating into dominant production. In Charlotte and the shallow talent pool of the IL, .839 isn't that impressive to me. I don't understand why people get so excited by the prospect of Sweeney taking over a starting OF spot. Cue people posting about how young he is and how great his swing looks....

I agree with Quickman. If Buehrle signs with the Sox without the NTC he will get dealt. The Sox have a shot at being historically bad in 2008 and 2009, and shedding veteran contracts will happen those 2 years. Even if not traded, why would he want to play for such bad teams. Go sign with a team that will be competitive. Also, given the restrictions the Sox place on signing pitchers they need to trade Garland ASAP. He's not going to sign a 3 year deal either and having him in 2008 isn't do anything for the Sox. Every day that goes by diminishes his value. He should be able to bring back someone like Kemp.

What about trading Garland to the Dodgers (if it's time for a firesale)? The Sox won't compete in 2008 anyway, and Garland might be at peak value: 3.15 ERA in the AL, over a year on his contract, very low injury risk, and he's from California. I would think he would bring quite a bit in return....

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 10:13 PM) I think if we threw in Contreras to go along with Jenks, we could get a pretty good package of prospects from the Braves. I don't think you'd have to throw in anybody. I'm on record as being very pessimistic about the trade value of players. Jenks could get Salty and a strong SS prospect (e.g. Lillibridge) or at least equivalent value from another team. As has been pointed out, Jenks is a young all-star closer under control for 3 (4?) more years. He'll get more expensive in arbitration, but he should bring back two A prospects if traded.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 09:26 PM) They should just shut him down for the rest of the season so he's at 100% come Opening Day of 2008 since you just know they'll be bringing him back for another go of it again next year. You just can't replace his disruptive speed and mad base stealzin skillz