Frank the Tank 35

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jan 23, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) Abreu is a terrific player but are the K's a concern? Not his alonebecause he's so special at the plate but when you combine his with Thome's and a few other guys we have, wouldn't we be in danger of being the Phillies/Cubs/Even us from a few years ago? Compared with the amount of times Anderson will be striking out this year? I dunno, I think since he generally hits for both a high average and has a high OBP, the K's aren't too much of a specific concern. Interesting to note, I found this snippet of a sox.com article from May '05: "In fact, both Ozzie Jr. and Oney have done outstanding jobs as translators for the media with Hispanic players, who prefer to do interviews in Spanish. Ibis actually has a personal connection to baseball, aside from her immediate family, working for Pepsi in Venezuela and doing public relations for White Sox's right-hander Freddy Garcia, the Phillies' Bobby Abreu, Florida's Miguel Cabrera and her husband. "They are like brothers to me," said Ibis of Garcia, Abreu and Ugueth Urbina, in particular, who are Guillen's closest friends in Venezuela. Garcia is also married to Ibis' niece. " On a somewhat related note, I've been occasionally reading the Philafan.com forums. I've seen a couple people who are under the impression that Abreu would ONLY waive his no-trade clause to come and play for Ozzie. Take it FWIW. As much as I'd want Abreu here, I don't think the trade is feasible for the Sox, not for cash concerns but rather bullpen concerns. I dunno who we'd have left to trade for some relief corps. Personally, I don't think Hermanson will come anywhere close to the numbers he put up last year. The only way we'd get flexibility is if Ozzie springs Uggie out of jail and gets him to play for us. So, all in all, a longshot.

Whoops, yeah I must've been thinking of someone else. Is Julio in arb? He has lost it since that one great season he had. I don't see how this trade helps anyone. Is this supposed to make Tejada happy?

http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29554 Scrubs moving around. Anna will be more of a draw for fans than Kris. The only reason the O's benefit from this is that they lose Julio's contract. Welcome to the AL Kris, you're gonna get rocked.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 13, 2006 -> 04:34 PM) haha, abreu is a hall of famer? he might be one of the most overrated players in the game, but he did win the derby, right? just for the record, some splits: Bobby Abreu, 2005 Home: .304 / .423 / .535 and 15 HR Away: .268 / .387 / .417 and 9 HR 2004 Home: .314/.451/.552 13 hr Away: .290/.495/.535 17 hr 2003 H: .349/.464/.544 11 hr A: .253/.355/.395 9 hr 2002 H:.284/.413/.467 8 hr A: .327/.413/.565 12 hr 2001 H: .261/.394/.509 13 hr A: .315/.393/.574 18 hr Career H: .310/.430/.532 100 hr A: .296/.393/..492 90 hr There's not THAT big of a difference. Let's not get caught up looking at ONE year of a veteran player's career. Some Sox fans were eager to point out Furcal's horrid day game stats of last year when it appeared as if the Cubs were about to sign him, when in actuality it was hardly a career trend.

I don't feel like starting up a new 30 page topic, but I thought I'd interject this rumor since I had been pondering it before someone posted it on the open mlb Sox forum. "Kenny(Pittsburgh) Hi Paul! I'm a huge Phillies fan is their any rumors out there about us getting a starting pitcher. Paul White- I have heard that the Phillies might be close to making another trade with Chicago. A source close to the situation has the Sox sending Contreras and several top prospects for Abreu and Madson." Paul White is a USAToday writer. I seem to recall the Phils being interested in Contreras recently, but this deal seems too good to be true unless the Phils are really desperate. Anyway, I mention it here because I see Abreu as a viable option to be traded for Tejada. I know I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just putting it out there, not expecting anything like this to happen. Madson would be an awesome bp arm that could spot start, but I don't see why they'd give him up in any deal. JC for Abreu I could fathom. Abreu+Uribe for Tejada+Chris Ray I could also see as plausible. I just can't see the attendance-minded FO of the O's taking JC for Tejada as much as I'd like to see it happen. Anyway, just an unfounded personal speculation/wish, so easy on the personal attacks.

Chris Ray would be awesome, but IF the O's commit to this trade, the Sox aren't getting anything else IMO. One question: If the Sox somehow crash and burn this season, could we not trade our players for prospects at that point? Hmm... that would kinda make some prospects expendable now.

Can we poo-poo this yet? Just my opinion, but if the Sox aren't getting a huge offensive upgrade like a Tejada, then I think JC gets moved (if at all) for pen help/top sp prospects (6th man ala BMac '05). If we're trading with Houston, JC for Qualls and/or Wheeler with a couple prospects, call it a day.

Just finished reading all these pages and the Orioles board. They're talking over there that the Cubs pulled Prior off the table. Any truth to that? Supposedly somebody had an inside Cubs source. I find myself almost pushing for the Cubs to trade the farm for Zito and the Mets to finally coup Ramirez.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 04:36 PM) Yeah, if you throw in a top prospect from one of the other teams then it becomes more reasonable; but Garland straight up for Bedard would be a loss. I'd be more than interested in a Garland for Bedard and Andy Marte swap!

Meh, definitely underwhelmed on Bedard. If they included Chris Ray as well, I guess I'd bite.

kool, u must be a 1337 mid-skool member... In all seriousness, if Vazquez' ship can be righted, he has the potential to be our ace. C'mon Coop...

No matter if the Sox had enough money to sign him next offseason or not. The issue will boil down to years as well. He'll command at least a 5 year deal and, at his age, probably 6, maybe 7 for a desperate team. The Sox as an organization just don't offer deals like that to pitchers. Speaking of prospects, how about this scenario: Garland to Baltimore for Chris Ray, Jay Gibbons, and one of Penn/Maine/Loewen. Gibbons to Toronto for Speier and one of McGowan/League/Rosario. Doable? I might be pushing a little bit on the prospects, but KW shouldn't be in the position to settle right now. The O's top prospect is an OFer, so he could replace Gibbons. The acquisition of Garland would go a long way towards soothing Tejada's wishes. The Jays have been rebuffed all offseason in their attempts at a power hitting OF. Gibbons hit 26 homers last year in 488 ABs. A full season could produce 30+, and he's still only 28. It's not like we couldn't use Gibbons ourselves, so the Jays wouldn't have much leverage here. None of the O's prospects are front of the line, but could help later in the year. League could help immediately in the pen. McGowan was an ueber prospect before Tommy John surgery a couple years ago. Usually it takes over a year for the pitcher to fully recover, so now would be a good time to strike. Like I said, maybe I'm a little aggressive in my prospect choices, but I think both the O's and the Jays are in "win now" mode and these moves make them better now. We would fill out our bullpen with 2 young, quality arms (Speier is the other lefty we could use) who we'd have control over for a long time as well as a couple insurance starters or long relief guys who could fill in for an injured Hermanson. I think this is a pretty good way to stretch Garland's worth out to fill our needs if all else fails.

Unless we're getting Billingsley, we should concentrate on getting major league talent for Garland. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see Billingsley though. With Liriano supposedly "Santana Jr." I'm getting pissed off just thinking about them coming in and shutting us out two games in a row. Not to mention, the Twins will have both of them locked up for years and years. Right now, the Sox have nobody that can pitch like Santana, and if they have a duplicate player of the same caliber, that wouldn't sit well with me. Billingsley at least has the potential to be as good as Santana unlike anybody we have now at any level. But as long as we keep winning, we COULD just buy an ace at some point, so getting to the playoffs again this year should be paramount to any personnel decision. The question is what's more important to a successful playoff run this year: a 6th starter that can come out of the minors or an upgraded bat, like Blalock, that could contribute on a daily basis? If the need for him ever arose, the 6th starter would become more valuable, but if that situation never materializes, the batter would be more valuable. ooo, decisions...

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 18, 2005 -> 01:41 AM) This argument works both ways. How many times did he get a grooved fastball because of Pods? Plus, there's nothing in his splits that suggest that he struggled making contact because of Pods. With a man on first, he struck out 20 times out of 92 ABs (22%) With runners on, he struck out 52 out of 223 ABs (23%) With runners in scoring position, he struck out 32 out of 131 ABs (24%) Overall, he struck out 114 out of 512 ABs (22%) There's nothing there that I would call statistically significant. In fact, I would say scotty's position has negligable effect. You can argue that runners effected his walk rate, as he was much more patient with the bases empty, but his strikeout rate was relatively unchanged. Walk rate Men on -- 13 walks in 223 ABs (6%) Bases empty -- 34 walks in 288 ABs (12%) Hmm... looks like the K's were pretty evenly spread. I was just assuming a higher strikeout rate due to the increased number of 1-2 and 0-2 counts he frequently took on for Pods' sake. His BA was pretty bad in those counts, so I assumed that could account for a higher K rate. Didn't do my homework, looks like I was wrong in my initial assessment. On another note: On the Texas front, I wonder if we could squeeze Gerald Laird from them. The Padres were interested in him and at least considered moving Eaton for a deal centered around him. Maybe we could package him for Barfield or Linebrink. I dunno... just something to think about while we wait for the next move, if there is one. (Man, am I getting bored...)

How many times was Iguchi down in the count in order to let Pods get a read? Take him out of the #2 spot, and I think that would immediately cut his K's to below 100. I think with another year of adjustment to major league pitching he could cut it down even further as well.

This is pure Boston media speculation. They want him. They assume because they're the Red Sox, they can get him. Cleveland is not trading Coco. He's too valuable to them.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Dec 17, 2005 -> 12:34 AM) I think most around here would be disappointed if the White Sox, after so many moves to help their major league club, took a step back to refresh their farm systm. I know I would, especially with Kenny's admirable "win now" attitude. If there was a HUGE name to be signed next offseason, I could see us doing something like this: Garland to Dodgers for Billingsley (sp?) and Broxton. Brox to the pen, Billingsley as insurance 6th starter (in minors till called up). Next year we could either trade Contreras or let him go depending on his contract status and have Billingsley be the 5th starter and thus bridging the gap to some of our younger pitching prospects like Broadway to be that 6th starter in '07. However, I don't think the Cubs are gonna let DLee go, not that we would have a place for him, and I don't think "disgruntled" CLee would come back either. IE, there aren't that many great position players that would fit into the Sox that would be FAs after next year. Therefore, it seems more reasonable, and more Kenny's style, that we'd go after immediate pieces with prospects being in a subserviant role. Although I'd prefer getting Tejada, it's looking less and less likely that he's gonna be moved. The Garland to Texas, Crede to Pitt scenario makes us a more complete team anyway. We'd really only be missing a bonafide #2 hitter. If the Pirates were only willing to give us one relief pitcher in exchange for Crede, I think I might push to include Crede to Texas and have them include Benoit. He's a converted starter and seems to thrive in the BP. 1.30 era in relief work last year. In the middle of the year they trying bumping him to starter which, like his previous seasons, was unsuccessful... 5-something ERA. They put him back in a relief role later in the season, and he was dominant again.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 17, 2005 -> 12:01 AM) Then if we traded crede for RP's, we wouldn't have a 3B. Josh Fields isn't ready yet either. I was assuming a precondition of a Garland for Blalock + SP prospect there. That's where the Crede speculation came from. Sorry, I should have noted that.

We actually need at least 2 bullpen arms with Marte and Vizcaino gone and the possibility of Hermanson missing some time. I think we can cover Hermanson with an in-house minor leaguer, but we should really try to bring in two more guys if possible. I like the idea of Crede to Pitt for some of their relief as they have loads of young pitching. The only reason I'd like to see the Sox get a top minor league SP is for insurance. Our starters pitched extra long last year into the playoffs and 3 of our starters are pitching in the international games. It would probably be a good idea to have someone, like BMac last year, that could fill in. I'm not hoping for anyone as major league ready as McCarthy obviously was, but someone who can reasonably put up a mid-4 ERA.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 11:38 PM) Ezequiel Astacio. Do you think he ever considered getting those things on his cheeks removed? Proactive could make a fortune!

.252 hitter on the road as opposed to .330 at home. I don't know why this guy is getting hyped up by you guys... at best he's no better than Juan Pierre. Same bad caught stealing %, no power. Would many of you have traded Jon Garland for Juan Pierre? I don't think so. We can get more for Garland than an OFer that really isn't necessary.

I don't like how this sounds, Mr. Rosenthal: What kind of deal would the White Sox want to make for right-hander Jon Garland? Probably one similar to the Marlins' trade of outfielder Juan Pierre, in which the team acquired three young pitchers from the Cubs. The White Sox's farm system is thin at the upper levels after sending left-handers Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood to the Phillies in the Jim Thome trade. The Orioles, Rangers and Mariners — all teams interested in free-agent right-hander Kevin Millwood — would figure to be in the mix for Garland. ...

Looks like Tejada's asking price is high, as we all assumed it would be: Will they or won't they? The Orioles' position on trading shortstop Miguel Tejada remains unclear. The Orioles have spent the past week exchanging trade proposals with interested clubs, but the odds of them completing a Tejada deal still appear remote. While the Cubs, Angels, Red Sox and possibly White Sox covet Tejada, the Orioles rarely have completed blockbuster trades under owner Peter Angelos, the exception being last winter's Sammy Sosa deal that was little more than a salary dump by the Cubs. For Tejada, the Orioles' asking price might be prohibitive. They rightly view Tejada as one of the game's biggest stars, a player who might command a $90 million deal if he were a free agent this off-season. They aren't interested in a four-for-one deal that combines overpaid veterans and unproven youngsters. They want players comparable to Tejada — Manny Ramirez, Mark Prior, etc. And Ramirez alone won't be enough. -from Ken Rosenthal The O's aren't getting any of that, so it's either us or he's staying in Baltimore.

Tavaras wasn't that great outside of his home park. Ever see that Family Guy where the guy from CNN's Crossfire is giving Peter advice, but whenever Peter sees him, he turns away in horror... I think I just did that to Ezekiel there.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 10:07 PM) well Lidge is certainly appealing. I don't have a problem with trading Garland for prospects but they should eitehr be more advanced than A ball or they should be elite if they are that low. I agree with that sentiment. KW is not trading for players a couple years away unless they're the most elite prospects. We're in "win now, again" mode. Any pitching prospect that's getting traded for should be able to step in and do a halfway decent job if one of our starters goes down. EDIT: IE, I would DEMAND the pimplefaced guy!... plus Qualls or Wheeler.