Frank the Tank 35

The Phils reportedly have asked the Dodgers about the availability of Brad Penny or Derek Lowe for Abreu. The Phils would want to tack on David Bell in that situation. They asked the Cubs for Prior, but I think they knew what that response was going to be. Garland might be around the right price. I don't think the Sox would stretch their payroll that far though. Is Garland+Anderson > or

I think if Duque was entrusted with the 5th spot, we'd have to set up some kind of platoon situation. Duque was strong for the first couple months of the season. Maybe we could get another aging starter and use him in long relief for a month, then they could trade positions with Duque going to long relief to get a rest? Moyer and Kenny Rogers are two aging starters who could give good half seasons although they'd both want the starting job and I'm not sure how well Rogers would go over in the clubhouse. Ted Lilly will probably get non-tendered now that the Jays have Burnett. I seem to recall some interest on this board about him. Tony Armas Jr. had been mentioned recently. Could we steal Scott Elarton? I dunno, something would have to be done for insurance at the fifth spot because you KNOW Duque won't make it through the entire season.

I know the D'backs needed a catcher, but man their BP is getting worse and worse. Not that these two pitchers in particular were anything special, but at least they had some experience.

Could be because he already is : Carl Crawford: deal for 2005 season worth 370K was renewed on 3/11/05- + he could earn 20K in bonuses for reaching 500PA- + signed 4-year deal worth 15.25M on 4/1/05 that superceded deal for 2005 season- + he receives a 500K signing bonus and salaries of 500K in 2005, 2.5M in 2006, 4M in 2007, and 5.25M in 2008- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2009 worth 8.25M or a 2.5M buyout- + if the 2009 option is exercised, then a Team Option for 2010 worth 10M or a 1.25M buyout is added- + 2010 option value could rise to 11.5M based on various escalators, including one for AL MVP votes- + as part of the deal, he will donate up to 400K to the Rays of Hope Foundation- + if traded, he receives a bonus worth up to 800K Agent: Brain Peters MLB Service: 2.072

I didn't think this needed it's own topic... KW was just on Silvy and Carmen. One of the questions they asked him was about Jon and the possbilities of him signing a long term contract. KW definitely did not sound optimistic about anything getting done this offseason and insinuated that if anything gets done, it would be after next offseason. He also stipulated that if prices for SP continued to go up, like this season, Jon would likely test the market and possibly be out of the Sox' range. He also said, "it might not get that far." Silvy asked him what that meant, and he covered his tracks... but it still might mean something. KW said that if they cannot resign Jon, there are internal options that would likely replace him, possibly from the bullpen. Interesting to think about.

From Newsday (so consider the source): While the cost-cutting Marlins still are refusing to lower their asking price of Robinson Cano for Juan Pierre, they have begun to tell teams that every player on their roster - including Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera - is available for the right price. It's interesting to think about, what WOULD the Marlins ask for in exchange for Cabrera? For me, Cabrera is one of only a few players who I'd trade anybody on the Sox to get. The question would then be HOW MANY Sox players would it take. It would obviously have to be a plethora of young, cheap players. I'd gut the farm for him if the opportunity arose.

Getting Crawford would bring ultimate completion to this offseason (minus losing Frank of course). I can't express how much I'd love to see him on the Sox. I'd give up anyone on the farm except McCarthy and maybe Young. Just to throw out a few ideas on how to get another top pitching prospect: Marlins need an OF or two just to field a team next year. They just loaded up on more pitching prospects than they have need for, maybe they'd want one of Anderson/Owens/Sweeney and Willie (they don't have a mlb ready 2b)? That's if we didn't want Pierre... man, I can't put together a cohesive argument right now, I just want Crawford muchmoreso than Pierre. It's a longshot for sure, but my interest is peaked.

The Tacoma News Tribune is also reporting that the Mariners have offered Kevin Millwood $44 million over four years and says the two sides could be close to a deal. The deal may include an option for a fifth year and added incentives. Just one year ago, Millwood signed a deal that guaranteed him $3 million. If the Mariners thought he was such a good bet to stay healthy, where were they then? Dec. 6 - 12:10 am et Go Mariners!

Who boos the greatest White Sox player of all time? He'd take an entirely incentive-laden backloaded bs contract just to have a chance to play regularly for the Sox next year. Stay off his case. Teams that could sign Frank that wouldn't make me depressed (and who might have the slightest desire for a DH): Mariners (because I have no distaste for them), Rangers (Frank hits better in the warmer months + small park= 500 hr?) Orioles plan on DHing Javy mostly next year if they can sign a catcher. Devil Rays are loaded, Gomes will probably DH again. Jays have more 1B/3B players than I can recall.

Byrd's in to replace Millwood. They can't afford to resign him. They might manage to bring back Elarton, but that's about the highest quality pitcher I can see them putting in #5. I'm still holding out hope they bring back Juan Gonzalez.

Silvy has that wager with Carmen that if the Sox get Pierre, he will allow Bruce Levine to come into the studio and kick him in the groin. Irrespective of how childish it would be, it would be hilarious.

QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 3, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) You put your best hitter third. Iguchi is not our best hitter, even if he does put up numbers like he did in Japan. If he puts up numbers like he did in Japan after his shoulder surgery in 2002, yes he is our best hitter, and yes you do hit him #3. He won't because this isn't the Japanese league with Japanese parks and pitchers, so it's a moot point. But just for clarification, his best season, 2003, looks something like this: .340/.438/.573 with 27 hr, 109 rbi, 112 runs, 42 sb, 81 k's/81 bb, .361 avg w/ risp all in only 135 games.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 11:14 PM) Did I miss something? .233 smaller than .262. Whoops, yeah that's what I meant. Thanks.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 11:07 PM) .231/.301/.360 The collective batting line allowed this season by the pitchers Brian Anderson faced. In short, he saw nothing but all-star pitchers. Ooo, good stat. I forgot all about the fact that he was facing elite lefties like Santana, etc.

Lately I've become kinda fascinated by hitters' averages when hitting behind in the count as Gooch was often asked to do last year hitting behind Pods. Pierre's career BAs when: 0-0: .332 0-1: .309 0-2: .262 (pretty good) 1-2: .233 (what's up with that?) 2-2: .286 3-2: .365 1-0: .326 2-0: .324 2-1: .318 I don't understand the average in the 1-2 count, as in how the heck is it worse than the 0-2 count? Just an interesting tidbit. I kinda like my Brady Clark idea from the who's next thread, but it all depends on what each person would cost in terms of players. BA would be fine too, but I'm just thinking in terms of a new #2 hitter.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 10:22 PM) You can't really count Gooch's numbers because he would take pitches just for Pods to take a look at the pitchers move and also let him steal. Then after pods does his thing then Gooch would sacrifice to move Pods over. Thats what made Gooch so good in that 2 spot. If Uribe isn't working out or our offense isn't getting it done in the 1st inning like last season Gooch needs to be move back. I'm not saying Uribe would be a great choice, unless he reverts to the 04 version, but he'd be worth a trial I suppose... definitely in ST. Sac bunts don't count against average though, correct? Grounding out to the right side of the infield, yes, obviously. His taking pitches is exactly my point though, if he didn't have to take so many strikes, he wouldn't have to hit from behind in the count as much and could improve on his offensive numbers. Of course Uribe doesn't sound like the perfect answer, but maybe it would work out?

Uribe hit no worse hitting behind in the count as opposed to when he was hitting ahead in the count. So he hit in the .250s when hitting behind in the count as opposed to Gooch's .180. The problem is he rocks lefties but gets dominated by righties.

Yeah I have a good buddy who's a Sox/Brewers fan as he lives in Wisconsin. He had the same thinking as you, Clark is a fan favorite. The team is getting so much younger though so I dunno if a 32 year old really fits into their long term goals. Do you go to UW Madison?

I guess Mueller would be a good option to back up Crede and also provide insurance for first base. However, his signing IMO would definitely cement the fact that Frank is not coming back. I know, I'm holding on to tiny shreds of hope. I also just wanted to shoot a name out there for additional consideration in light of the perceived need of a new #2 hitter. I was looking through some numbers, trying to get a bead on someone. I noticed Gooch only hit about .180 when behind in the count, something he's asked to do quite frequently when Pods is on base. When he's ahead in the count, he's hitting a robust .340ish, further aiding the case for him to be moved lower in the order. Going through lists in that manner, most of the players who accel at hitting when behind in the count are middle infielders, not many superstars. Guys like Sean Casey and David Eckstein really accel at this particular aspect. Finally I stumbled upon a player who hasn't come up in trade talks but could feasibly be had for a relatively low price in trade. That person? Brady Clark. Not a big name, not a sexy name, but somebody who could get the job done IMO. While I'm fine with the idea of having Anderson in CF, for those who aren't satisfied with the rookie in center and want to get more out of the Gooch this, on paper, sounds like a good proposition. He hit .306 on the season and .276 when behind in the count. He played exclusively in CF last year, and no he's not Arow caliber out there. He bats right so we could go pods-clark-thome (LRL). He's got ok power and speed, 13 homers and 10 steals (was bad at getting caught last year though). He only K'ed 55 times last year, so he's got pretty good bat control. 31 doubles, so he's got gap power too. He's already 32, but just played his first full season and only made a little over a million. His two previous semi-full seasons he hit .273 and .280, so he'll probably be good for around a .300 season consistently. Jason Stark labeled him, along with Garland, as one of 5 players last year who finally found "it." He lead off for the Brewers last year, so he could reasonably handle those duties if Pods makes an out or gets the unjury bug again. I wouldn't think we'd have to give up as much to get him as say we would for Pierre. They have the beginnings of a very talented infield with Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, and Hall. They also have a bunch of good pitchers in their minors. Maybe they'd want someone to put beside Corey Hart in a young OF? I don't think they have any decent lefty relievers either. Maybe a package of Marte+Anderson could net Clark+Manny Parra/Jose Capellan/Hendrickson/???. At first glance Clark is nothing special, but he could be an excellent #2 hitter.

My favorite sports player of all time. He's the reason I am a Sox fan. Every time I was at the park and he stepped up to the plate, I got shivers, especially when the crowd would give him an ovation, standing or otherwise. Never have I ever bashed him or berated him for his supposed problems, I have always been in his corner. When I was younger, I had everything Frank Thomas... jerseys, autographs, baseball cards, everything. Some kids wanted power wheels or the next Nintendo game, I wanted his 1990 Leaf rookie card. I couldn't stand the sight of him in another uniform. However, if he is, I think I'd still be compelled to cheer if he drops a bomb at the Cell. Thanks big guy.

If you're talking about precluding the Thome deal, it's possible. We don't have a pitcher like Pavano to give up. Like I said, all of our starting 5 next year will be better value than Pavano. However, everybody else in the organization falls below him even with his massive contract. Considering we filled one of the Phils' needs with Rowand, I think the same deal plus Fields would have netted Abreu (of course this is all contingent on the Yanks deal actually working). Duncan's not all that spectacular anyway, he just happens to be a dim glimmer in an otherwise dark abyss of the Yanks minor league system. Granted he is only 20, but he only hit .235 last year with 19 homers and 61 RBI in AA (451 ABs). In contrast, the 22 year old Fields hit .252 with 16 homers and 79 RBI at AA (477 ABs). Anyway, the more I look at it, the more this rumors smells like crap. The whole Posada-Lieberthal thing doesn't make any sense. The Phils are getting screwed unless the Yanks are throwing bags of $$$ at them. They need someone to immediately step up at 3B, not 2-3 years down the road.

It depends what kind of money is involved. If it's straight up, it's a salary dump of Posada. His 2007 will probably be guaranteed after he meets his games played clause next year. Pavano's value is lower than any of our starters (not counting Duque). Not only is he more expensive, but he's been ineffective for most of his career including last year most importantly. Duncan's a good prospect, but c'mon, who has a better farm system, Sox or Yanks?

Sonofa... so we couldn't swing a little extra to get Abreu instead of Thome? If this goes through, I'll be irate.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) Marte has never hit 99 in his life unless the radar gun was off. When he is going good he hits 95-96 with all his fastballs and can pop a 97 mile an hour fastball up there. If marte is washed up or not ( i still think he will outproduce eyre next year for less money) picking up marte was a great move by williams. He was already passed up by a couple teams when williams got him. Back in 03 I remember it happening quite often watching on TV whereas the past couple years he hasn't had as much pop in his fastball. I guess it's possible that there was a switch in radar guns/tv guns that could account for that. I don't think Marte is washed up, he'll still be a good reliever but not elite like he looked in 03. The loss of a couple mph theory makes sense to me though. After losing a few mph, a pitcher might try to paint the corners which would account for the sloppy results. I only get a chance to go to maybe 10 games a year, but I usually watch at least half on tv. It's not unheard of that the scoreboard gun and the tv gun are off.

I don't know if we'll ever see the Damaso of 2003 again. He's lost a few mph off his fastball. Back in 03 he was regularly lighting it up at 96/97 and occasionally up to 99 mph. Now his fastball is usually around 91/92 occasionally breaking 93. While that's still good as long as there is a lot of movement and an odd pitching angle, it won't cut it with the increased amount of wildness he's shown. While some of that wildness could be controlled, I don't think he'll ever be back to any sub 3 ERAs again. So if the deal was good enough, I think I'd go for it.