jphat007

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:16 PM) For Garcia. It worked out for us, I can't disagree with that. I'm saying at the moment the trade was approved, I don't know many who looked at the package provided for Garcia and were happy. Did Williams know Morse would be average, Reed an Aaron Rowand clone, and Olivo a free-swinging pile of crap? Did he predict a huge shift in the offseason market for pitchers? Trades often are best assessed over a long period, as we've witnessed with the Garcia trade. Williams is a smart general manager, but he's not a genius. Only Beane holds that title. I'm merely suggesting for a trade to occur which gives our club a pitcher of Garcia's caliber, we'll again have to overpay based on our analysis of players at that particular moment. I thought it was a great trade at the time. But you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things. Do you think if we asked the White Sox real nicely they'd let you become the GM for us! I mean, it really looks like we need it!

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 10:40 AM) Well I disagree, They will be looking today for a reliever. They are on the phones now. KW is always on the phones.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 10:45 PM) Jphat.....where are you.... RIght here, after just reading articles that said we are going to look heavily at in-house options for awhile, juat like I said we would. They are going to wait it out and see, try to plug in a guy that we have in camp, and see where it goes. And if we don't, they'll get a reliever that has had an ERA in the high 4's or 5s the last few years, just like I said. THx for bringing me up after they are doing what I said.

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) I think that whole askign for extra money is for the press. JR will not stand in the way of getting a bullpen guy to save a couple million. I justt can't see it.Also remember contraras is still a pawn to trade. I can't believe that we would trade Contreras, who will likely be one of our best starters this year, especially because he is throwing strikes, just because we are worried about the 4 or 5th guy coming out of our pen. I think KW is going to try to get by in the first couple of months with Cotts, Jenks, Politte, Bmac, Hermy?/Tracey (yuck)/other minor leaguer and our second lefty, then trade a month or two in if we need it.

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 06:07 PM) I respectfully disagree, KW stole cintron. "the Baj" sucked and will never be as good as he was in the minors. KW is targeting people already, hell I would go and get williamson off the cubs. there will be players and yes we will over pay by giving a couple of guys who will never make it anyway. If only borchard was decent, he would be one to make a trade.KW put himself in this situation he will get himself out. if he doesn't it will cost him the division. I was saying KW had to ask for a little extra by asking JR for a little extra money. I thought it was a great deal. But stealing a backup SS is much easier than stealing even a mediocre bullpen guy. They are treasured in this league.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 06:05 PM) I agree with you about getting a big name reliever. I don't think teams will trade those guys before the season even starts. I'm thinking of a guy who's on the bubble. A guy I would have loved to claim off waivers was Joel Peralta when the Angels DFA'd him but the Royals had waiver priority and snatched him up. But he's the type of guy I see us trading for -- a guy with good stuff who hasn't done much in the majors yet. Maybe, but I think it is going to be tougher than you think. EVERYBODY wants more bullpen help and nobody wants to give it up. Thats why decent relievers got ridiculous money this year and we are at the end of the waiver claim list. Oh well. I'll take a WS to get in that spot.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 05:45 PM) When has KW ever worried about the cost of players? If we have a hole, KW will fill it before the season starts. Right now, it looks like we have a hole in the bullpen. We need another reliever if Hermanson shows no signs of improving health-wise and stuff-wise. I don't know if 1) Anybody would want to give up a decent reliever at all, especiallly to a WS contender like us 2)it could be acquired within reasonable means. KW had to ask for the little extra to sign Cintron. I'm not sure he could get much more and it would take more than the 1.6 million to get a decent bullpen guy. I'm just saying don't count on any guy with an ERA in the 3s of late. More like a flyer on a guy with a 5+ ERA.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 05:10 PM) Because the sox may have to give talent/money/or take money on... in return for a player. A hell of a lot more than they gave up or took on for Alex Cintron. Sorry you didn't realize that. Much easier to get Alex Cintron than it is to get a decent bullpen guy.

I wasn't saying one of those two or anybody else. I was just saying one of those two. I don't expect KW to deal for anybody before the beginning of the season.

I wonder if Redding or Tracey would take Hermy's place if he is hurt?

Weaver is pretty good.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) And that's all we're saying in this thread. We think that it's very likely that KW will have to add bullpen help. Well, yah, I think it is safe to say that if Hermy is hurt, KW won't go with a 5 man bullpen. It's quite apparent that somebody will ahve to go in there if Hermanson is hurt. Might have to be a minor leaguer though. Our funds are stretched thin.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Nothing is guaranteed. But considering some of the money the White Sox have thrown around this off season, its pretty incredible to me no money was thrown at the bullpen. Bullpen performances have been known for their fluxuation from year to year. KW at Soxfest spoke about how strong he thought the bullpen would be. I hope he's right, but I disagree with him if he's going with what he's got. If bullpen performances would fluxuate so much, why in the world would you want KW to throw that much money at bullpen guys who are not gaurenteed to get the job done? How does that make sense. Why don't you make improvements in other areas where they will be much more likely to make an impact. And you'll forgive me if I trust KW's opinion over yours. He is around the team a little bit more than you are. And considering he just won a world series, I think he has a good idea of what we need on this team.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Then s***, what does your defontion of cheap mean? :rolly A lot less than it would take to get any of those guys. This isn't fantasy baseball. Bullpen help is difficult to find and nobody likes to give it up. I know you'd like KW to just go and cherry pick anybody he wants from teams, but that's not the way it works.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) L. Ayala-Washington D. Riske-Boston K. Calero-Oakland Julio Mateo-Seattle Julián Tavárez-Boston Akinori Otsuka-Texas JJ Putz-Seattle Ray King-Colorado I said available for cheap. We would have to give up money and players to get any of those players. Money and talent that KW doesn't have to give up. None of those teams would give up bullpen help like that for cheap.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:14 PM) How about the "eternal pessimists" who are complaining about how bad the 'pen might be? Given that this team already has six starting pitching options that range from "pretty good" to "great", I don't think that adding another middle reliever is something that has to be done right away. If they're that easy to find, why not wait until we actually have a problem in the 'pen? Why spend more money or trade away a valuable player to address a problem that hasn't developed yet and may not ever develop? I agree that we could use another lefty in the 'pen, but I don't see why a deal needs to be made RIGHT THIS MINUTE. Why not wait until May? Exactly. And KW understands what is going on. I'm sure he'd love to go get a guy that is guarenteed to put up a 3.50 ERA in the bullpen, but this isn't fantasy baseball. You can't always get what you want.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:07 PM) Bullpen help costs a heck of a lot less than a guy like Vazquez in terms of money and talent traded to get him. Did you see some of the contracts given out to bullpen guys this offseason? Seriously? Plus Vasquez helps our rotation long term and bullpen this year with Bmac. I'm pretty sure KW knows what he is doing.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:06 PM) This team doesnt need a Scot Sheilds or Brad Lidge. I dont think anyone has said that. The eternal optimists that think everything is perfect want to believe that is what were talking about, but thats just not the case. All Kenny needs to do is go out and find a guy that has put up a 3.20-3.80 ERA in the pen the last few years. There are plenty of guys out there that can do that, and some on REALLY bad teams... I would love for you to show me a guy that will most likely put up those type of numbers and is available for cheap.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 03:00 PM) KW did a good job, be he neglected the bullpen. Politte, Hermanson, Cotts all performed much better than could be reasonably expected last year, and are longshots to repeat that performance. Hermanson in particular mentioned he may have to retire during the playoffs. Jenks is a wildcard as well. He was great, has great stuff, but has had questionable behavior in the past. Middle relievers aren't that expensive. Bringing in a bunch of garbage like the dopes auditioning for the second left handed reliever role was puzzling. BMac looks like the real deal, but I don't think the White Sox want him making a ton of appearances in relief, and if a starter goes down, he's in the rotation. The reason the 2nd lefty and last member of the pitching staff is important, is the way Ozzie uses the bullpen. Its possible everyone will repeat or come close to their performance last year, its also possible, more possible IMO that the bullpen becomes as Donald Trump would say "a total disaster". I really think KW needs to add at least 1 reliable bullpen guy right now, and probably will need to add another during the course of the season. But that's my point. KW did a cost effective analysis and decided that it was more important to improve the rotation (longterm as well) and the bench and the offense, and hope that the bullpen will just be close to last year's numbers. I sure he would have loved to add a stud bullpen guy, but he didn't have the resources. We aren't the Yanks. Our payroll improved by a hell of a lot. KW listens to Coop and Ozzie and they think that the bulllpen could at least get the job done for the most part this year. I'm sure KW would love to fill every little hole, but that just isn't realisitic. THat's not the way baseball works. Every team is going to have holes. Bullpen help costs A LOT, and then it isn't even guarenteed. If you want guarenteed bullpen help, you have to give up half your team.

QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:50 PM) Taking Nathan instead of Carrasco is the opposite of what you said GM's have to do here: Since Carrasco had a better year last year, according to your logic in that post, anybody would take him over Nathan. And all I'm doing it poking holes in your argument. I'm not saying who KW should/will trade for. Yah, in fantasy baseball. You are talking in those terms. Not in how baseball really works. I'm sure KW would love to get some massive updgrade for Hermy but there is no way to do it, so he has to improve as much as he can and hope those guys can get the job done this year because they made improvements last year. And not just in the stats.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:45 PM) A GM's job IS trying to predict how someone will do in the future, not base everything on last season. Yes I realize that. I'm sure KW does as well. So he improved as much as he could this offseason. We improved the rotation, the offense, and the bench. I'd love him to replace Hermy with some gaurenteed stud too but he would have had to given up too much to get someone like him. KW choose to improve other areas of the team and plan on the same bullpen guys giving him enough because he saw enough improvement in them last year that they could go out and a least produce most of the time this year.

QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:41 PM) Thats not what I'm saying. If you were the GM of a team and needed bullpen help for this year, would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan? Basically, who do you think will do better next year? Who wouldn't take Nathan. How is that relevant to anything we are talking about. It would be relevant if Minny would trade us Nathan straight up for Politte. Do you think they would do that?

QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) I was replying to this post which makes you sound as if you would take a player who had the better last year over the player who is more consistant, but not as good as the other pitcher who has only ever had 1 good year. I wasn't replying to any other post you've made, just that one. Would you take Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan? How about Hector Carrasco or Brad Lidge? Sweet. When do we get to just pick and choose who we put in our bullpen? I want RIvera and KRod too. YES! That is not revelant because this is not fantasy baseball. You don't get to just choose who you want.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) And why not? I want my GM to have my team as prepared as possible, and if that means going out and getting more help, than so be it. I think Sox fans have a right to be concerned about the pen. Its the 2nd week of spring, and already Hermanson has back pains, AGAIN. This is a guy that ate 60 important innings for us last season. We then have Cliff, whos career ERA is twice the ERA he put up in 05. I am really big Pollite fan, and loved the signing back in 04. However, even im not sure he can match that 2.00 ERA he posted. Cotts im not really concerned about. He really has had no injury problems, and while obviously 2005 was a HUGE year from him, alot of people predicted Cotts being a solid pitcher as time went on. So what happens if Hermanson goes down? I doubt he is going to be 100% this season. Are we going to bring up Charlie Hagger? How about Rusty Tucker? As a GM you have to cover all of your bases, and I think the bullpen could become a big problem this year. We need to be prepared. Then you are screwed. KW improved the team as best as he could. You can't go out and fix every hole and every spot because you think that somebody in the bullpen might regress. That's just not the way it works for this team, and almost every other team in baseball. Sure, I'm sure KW would love to have Rivera and Krod and Rincon and etc, etc, but you can't. You have to hope guys can stay healthy and Cotts, Jenks, Politte, Bmac, Hermy stay healthy and are productive. Now if Hermy gets hurt, then he can go try and acquire somebody that had his similar career stats, but even they are hard to find. Bullpen help is tough to find. KW has done a lot to improve the team but there is only so much you can do. Sometimes you have to sit back and hope. Anybody on this team can regress and anybody can get hurt. That's the way baseball works. YOu improve as best as you can and work from therre. If the bullpen struggles, we have to hope the other improvements offset it enough and have KW go out and get a Sullivan type player like 03. Really good, gaurenteed bullpen guys are TOUGH to get. They don't grow on trees and you have to pay a lot to get them. There is nobody out there right now that we could afford to get that would be gaurenteed to be better than what we have except maybe for the second lefty.

QUOTE(Felix @ Mar 11, 2006 -> 02:22 PM) You would make a horrible GM. Nothing more is really needed to be said. Then again, lets say it anyway. There are things called fluke years. These types of years lead players, such as Adrian Beltre, into getting a big fat undeserved paycheck. To avoid relying on players who have only ever had 1 good year in their career, the smartest thing for a GM to do is to go after players who seem to be more reliable, and repeat their performances year in and out. If you were getting a reliever, would you get Hector Carrasco or Joe Nathan? Last year, Carrasco had a 2.04 ERA in 88.1 innings pitched while Nathan had a 2.70 ERA in 70.0 innings. Does this mean Carrasco is the better bet to do better next year? No, because this was his second year ever with an ERA below 2 (his first being his rookie year) and his third (including the two years with an ERA under 2) with an ERA below 4. Nathan, on the other hand, has had three consecutive years with an ERA under 3, including one with an ERA under 2. He's the better bet to do better next year because he's been much more consistant (even though he struggled in his first two years) than Carrasco. But, going by your logic, you would take Carrasco, because he had a better year last year. Wow. It's like you haven't even read any of my posts. I'm advocating doing exactly what KW is doing. Staying with the guys we had last year beacuse they got the job done for us. You picked out a situation that has no bearing on anything. It doesn't apply. If Carassco was Politte last year, you wouldn't go out and trade for Nathan. You couldn't. It wouldn't be cost effective. You would stay with Carassco. If you could just pick between the two, who wouldn't pick Nathan, but I'm sorry, that's not how MLB works. What a terrible situation to bring up. That has nothing to do with our situation. LOL. I guess you think KW would make a horrible GM? PS. Thank goodness you aren't running our team.