Rex Hudler

Yes, last year Belliard hit Lefties well. But he also was hitting at Coors Field for half the season, where he did most of his damage. His career averages coming into this season were: 119 G .266 BA .343 OBP 26 2B 8 HR 45 RBI 5 SB His best years outside of Colorado were 1999 and 2000. Take away a little power and add steals and we basically got the same exact thing from Willie in what most are calling a disappointing year. Sorry, that would not have been a smart move.

Unfortunately what Sammy doesn't realize is that comes with the territory when you are the one soaking up all the accolades when hitting 60+ HR on a losing team. If Sammy wanted to be in the limelight when he was "the" man, then he has to understand he will also be in the limelight when things aren't going so well.

The you are the only one on the plante that thought Belliard would hit as well outside of Coors as he did for the Rockies. Let's not confuse your disdain with Willie or the Sox lack of a leadoff hitter with your being Nostradamus. Belliard was NOT a reasonable thought back in the offseason. He had done NOTHING to make anyone think he would do what he did this year.

"Cutting edge" and "Alternate" sound pretty scary. Especially, when the Sox frequently used the best orthopedic surgeon there is in James Andrews.

Let's go back to last January. What did you think you would get out of Belliard at that point??? In 2003, he hit .277 with 31 doubles, 8 home runs and 50 RBI in 116 games. He walked 49 times in 447 AB. Note this was in Colorado. He hit .251 with a .321 OBP outside of Coors Field. In 2002, he hit a whopping .211 with a .257 OBP, 3 HR and 26 RBI 104 games for Milwaukee. So based on that and his preveiously average production, what did YOU expect from Ron Belliard before this season??

Ugh, not this again..... lol I get your point Jim, I just think there were better options, both for this year and for the $4.5 million it will cost to keep Everett for next. I agree with you most of the time, Jim, just not here.

f***, I give up........ either you people don't have a f***ing clue or just don't read. What a waste of time this was.

You are joking about Belliard, right???

No, I think it does matter. But I think too much emphasis is placed on it at times. I just wanted to try and get people to think beyond those for things for now. FWIW, based on the numbers presented, I had Oswalt ranked 10th. In reality, I would probably rank him higher, somewhere in the middle of the pack. But looking at it this way, made me wonder why so many people are talking about him as being one of the favorites to win it. I didn't have to wonder long. They are biased based on one number - wins. Don't get me wrong, wins are important. Good starting pitchers keep their teams in games, giving them a chance to win. But starting pitchers often have no control over wins either. Note I am talking about evaluating starting pitchers, not teams.

So where do the IP by Sox starters rank? Are they first?

I'll update the table with won-loss records and names after more people have had a chance to look at it, and perhaps even put a little thought into it.

I'm just fine. No ulcers here, trust me. I was just a little insulted that you can't either play along or stay the f*** out it. I put an hour into putting that together last night and you piss on it because it is too hard to think for yourself. Do what you want to do, but if I want to get pissy based on the way you handle it, then I feel I am in my rights to do so.

Sorry, but when it is over, it is over. People move on. No matter how disappointing the end of the season may be, players on all teams will turn the page. It is just how it is and the Cubs are no different than anyone else.

Christ people! Why even post in this thread??? That was totally the opposite of the point of this. Learn to think outside the box a little bit and not be brainwashed by names or even won-loss records. How hard is it to follow the rules of this discussion or just not post at all?? I am not saying wins and losses don't have a place, but the previous posts just show you guys can't think outside the box. f***, give it a little effort, why don't you?

I thought about Peavy, but he had 30 less IP than any of the other starters and I wanted to include a couple of relievers. I also wanted to limit the list to 10. Davis would have had the 2nd highest ERA and highest WHIP. Cheat, our lists are pretty similar. I'll post my full list after others have had a chance to look at it.

I think most real Cub fans have tired of his act as has much of the media. His time in Chicago is winding down.

Here is a challenge for objective and knowledgable fans (couldn't find any, so figured it couldn't hurt to put it here) The following are 10 candidates for the NL Cy Young Award. Rate them 1-10 with 1 being the best as if you were a writer. In the spirit of this, please do not try to put names with the players. Some will be obvious, but try and do this based on only the information given, with no outside bias. Lastly, won-loss records are not given here, but most other stats are. Evaluate however you would like, based on the information provided only. This will not be easy. Enjoy! Untitled Document Player ERA IP H BB K CG SV WHIP A 1.29 69.2 36 21 62 0 47 0.82 B 2.98 214.1 169 79 218 0 0 1.16 C 2.19 82.1 53 22 114 0 45 0.91 D 2.60 245.2 177 44 290 4 0 0.90 E 3.49 237 233 62 206 2 0 1.24 F 3.00 222.1 212 49 139 2 0 1.17 G 2.98 196 145 81 239 2 0 1.15 H 3.20 225 165 77 251 4 0 1.08 I 2.70 237 201 32 264 5 0 0.98 J 2.75 209.2 174 81 188 1 0 1.22

Geez, Yas, I thought I was reading my own words there for a minute. I don't know how many times I have said those very same things. Sometimes I have to say them to myself too. LOL I tell young people that work for me all the time..... just because someone is old, doesn't mean they are smarter than you. But it can't hurt to listen to someone with life experiences. I thought I knew everything at 16. I didn't know s***. I thought I knew a lot at 24. I knew more than s***, but a lot less than I knew when I turned 30. At 35 I looked back and thought I was just beginning to get smart at 30. When I turn 40, I am sure I will realize there is still a ton I don't know today. It is a never-ending learning process and those that learn that fact early, are ahead of the game.

Gregg Ritchie, the hitting coach for both Rowand and Crede in 2000, felt back then that Rowand had more power potential. I have said for a couple of years that I felt Rowand could hit for power. Of course, no one believed me until a couple of months ago. LOL That's not a knock on Crede as much as it is a positive for Rowand. But I don't think anyone ever really thought Crede had 40 HR potential. 25-30 is realistic, however.

I think Crede will improve. I don't think he will ever be a major star, but I think he will give you solid production from the hot corner for many years. He will make many millions and live very comfortably.

OBP is supposed to be a measure of run production. The better the team OBP the more runs scored over the long haul. I am not discounting OBP at all. I am merely saying that it is only ONE stat. I could care less if someone has an OBP of 50 points less than another if there is no measurable decrease in offensive production. FWIW, Koskie is only marginally better than Crede, especially if you look at what he did this year. Would you really pay $2-3 million a year more for an extra 5-10 RBI, 5-10 runs scored, 20 points in batting average, 30 points on OBP? I'd keep what I got and spend that money elsewhere, personally. Take your blinders off. Crede, while coming off a disappointing year, is not as bad as you think.

Say all you want.......... just say it in the right thread.

Why must some people be so blinded by batting average and OBP? Is the name of the game for a hitter not to score runs or produce runs? Crede had 69 RBI to 56 for Randa Crede scored 67 runs to 65 for Randa Crede walked only SIX fewer times than Randa (34 to 40) Crede struck out only FOUR more times than Randa (81 to 77) Randa had 31 doubles to Crede's 25. Crede had 21 HR to Randa's 8. So Randa had more singles. I can't see where they produced more runs. In Crede's worst year, he was nearly, if not just as good as Joe Randa. When Randa was Crede's age, all of his numbers were worse than Crede's besides batting average. There really no comparison. Getting rid of Crede for Joe Randa would be stupid, unless you enjoy watching one of your former players outperform the guy you picked up.

I'd like you to explain how winning the MVP of two different leagues indicates he would be a mediocre player? And let's not compare Crede to Joe Randa. That's a freakin joke.

If they have to go down that road, then so be it. If not a free agent, then they can make a trade. Perhaps Josh Fields will be ready by then. There is no way I would go spend money on a free agent 3B this year, just because if Crede sucks again there isn't anybody as good the following year. By the way, aside from Beltre, who we have already discussed, who are the available free agents in this year's stellar crop of 3B?