Rex Hudler

It shows me that the Sox system isn't much different than other teams. They certainly aren't the best, but they aren't the worst in terms of producing Major League players. But you are right that it proves nothing. I also think Garland needs to be on that list, based on others that are there.

cw, I honestly don't think Wally and KW would have mixed well together. Perhaps it is the best for both parties.

Like I said before, there may be names left off the list and it looks as if there are.... I don't think evaluating this to the smallest detail is necessary, UNS. Look at the bigger picture and think in generalities just for today, k?

He wouldn't have gotten this job had he been blackballed. the job he got was already filled until about two weeks ago when the manager resigned for some reason. Wally will be fine. It may take him longer to get there or he may never even get to the Majors, but over time he will prove that he is a hell of a manager.

I'm sure there are "holes" in the list....... but the pitcher's age was a consideration, hence no Maddux, Johnson, etc. Vazquez should probably be on there.

last year......... I think way too much is being made about Frank not returning phone calls. If I were him, I would be doing the same thing.

Send your compliments to The Cheat....... my sig was his handywork.

Somebody must be drunk.......

Ok, I am drinking lemonade with nothing in it at the moment (yes, my life is sad)..... Now I am confused. I thought the originator of this thread was Hex Rudler. I have no clue who this guy is.

Had too many to drink tonight Past? I didn't mean to make your brain explode. LOL

I agree that it doesn't get into the depth it probably needs, but I think it gives us enough to go on that the Sox probably aren't much different than other clubs in player development. Some are better, others are worse. I think the Sox will land somewhere in the middle.

Pastime always got bad marks while he was in school..... They always said "Doesn't Play Well With Others"

To answer your questions..... 1. I saw one pic of her and she looked cute. Can't say beyond that because I have never met her. 2. Not Carlos Lee's wife....... but might not mind the role.

Rex knows who Hex is....... Hex knows his stuff. He has posted under another name on here before. Rex (speaking in 3rd person is weird) isn't sure why Hex chose his name, but is flattered and has no problem with it. Rest assured, Hex is okay by Rex.

You are smoking crack if you are going to mention him in the same breath as Prior. But very few pitchers would belong in the same sentence as Prior. Personally, I am not high on Jon. I haven't seen him pitch in three years, so I could be wrong, but I never saw what everyone else did when he had his huge year in 2000. I felt like he could be a big league starter, just not a #1 or #2 like many others did. It has been well documented on here, so I won't go into it all, but I question his attitude and approach. That said, I could certainly see him putting things together enough to win the #5 spot. He definitely has talent. I just don't think he will ever be dominant. On the flip side, he could be a career AAA pitcher too. Going into ST, I would think he has as good a shot as any of the other candidates to win that slot.

Stolen directly from Jeremyb1 at WSI..... I thought it was good stuff so I am stealing it, yet giving him the footnote. I haven't checked it thoroughly so he may have missed one or two, but the list looks good to me at first glance..... So Baggs, it is up to you if you want to take this further. First lets take a look at how many good home grown pitchers most clubs have developed. I'll look at pitchers 26 and younger and they will be associated with the club they debuted with. The pitcher will have to be considered a top of the rotation starter for the purposes of this survey. I'll include any starter with a full season with an ERA under or very close to 4 with a few exceptions here and there when it seems appropriate. Yankees - 0 Boston - 0 Toronto - 1 (Halladay) Baltimore - 0 Tampa Bay - 0 Minnesota - 1 (Santana) White Sox - 2 (Buehrle, Wells) Kansas City - 0 Cleveland - 0 Detroit - 0 Oakland - 2 (Mulder, Zito) Seatle - 1 (Pinero) Anaheim - 0 Texas - 0 Atlanta - 2 (Horacio Ramirez, Perez) Florida - 3 (Penny, Willis, Beckett) Phillie - 1 (Padilla) Montreal - 1 (Armas Jr.) Mets - 1 (Seo) Cubs - 3 (Wood, Zambrano, Prior) Astros - 2 (Redding, Oswalt) Cardinals - 0 Pittsburg - 0 Milwaukee - 0 Giants - 0 L.A. - 0 Arizona - 1 (Webb) Padres - 2 (Eaton, Peavy) That gives us an average of .76 successful young pitchers developed by each organization. 14 of the 30 teams - nearly half - don't haven't developed a successful young pitcher recently. That makes the White Sox better than average at developing young pitchers even if you decided not to count Wells for whatever reason. As someone else pointed out, having high draft picks which the Sox have not also helps. Wood, Prior, Beckett, Mulder and Zito were all top ten picks in the draft. So, particularly in light of this reasearch my conclusion is that the White Sox are no worse at developing young pitching that other organizations. The overwhelming majority of young pitching prospects do NOT become successful major league pitchers. The failure to understand this and the fact that fans ussually take notice of their own team's failed prospects moreso than other clubs leads people to get the impression the White Sox have a poor track record with pitching prospects when this is not the case. Buehrle and Wells are all-star calliber players and Garland still has a few seasons to become a successful young pitcher.

To give you all the history, this discussion was started in another thread... Here is the premise. I was lurking over at WSI and jeremyb1 started a thread that was similar to our discussion. In the next post, I will post what he found in researching pitchers that MLB teams developed.

I'll leave the details to you. If you think a guy developed more for us, than for another team, put him on our side. Also factor in what we got back from him in trade. I'll let you decide which teams you want to start with, but a guideline would be try to find teams without huge payrolls that have a base of regulars. I don't think it would be fair to compare a team that is constantly rebuilding. Anything else I can't help you with? LOL

KW wanted Jiminez, I believe. Sometimes they look at a guy and see his flaws and what is keeping him from excelling and think they can fix the problems. What happens a lot of times is that the character and lack of work ethic of a player keeps that process from helping. Sometimes talent is easier to rate than character. Obviously the team trading a player isn't going to volunteer that the guy is a slug and a cloubhouse problem. Baggs, here is your assignment..... Find a way to objectively compare our farm system with others. How many everyday players/regular pitchers have other teams produced in recent years. My guess is, that the Sox have had no more injuries than most teams and are somewhere in the middle in regards to the number of players they have promoted. Good luck and we will look forward to you report!

Does anyone else find it interesting that Backman got a job with the Diamondbacks, who just happen to share ST facilities with the White Sox?? Their Minor League teams play each other almost everyday.

Jim, the problem with that premise is, Laumann was only in charge of the last 2-3 drafts. Those drafts have been considered pretty strong ones. There are a lot of things that go into player development. Good drafts are important. So are getting good kids and weeding out the bad ones early. No matter how good a kid is, if all he wants to do is booze it up, party and chase women, it will show on the field. Some guys are talented to get past that until they get to the higher levels. Others flop in their first few years. Coaches and instructors have a major impact on player development as well. Not only their abilities to coach, but the continuity of what they are teaching as well. If a kid gets promoted from AA to AAA and the hitting coach up there teaches things that contradict what the AA guy did, problems will occur. Training and Strength and Conditioning programs will impact a player's success. I do believe the Sox have problems in their PD system. I don't think the probems rest solely with scouting. Based on my contacts in various places and the amount of games I see each year, I probably know more about the Sox PD system than anyone on this board. YET, I can't pinpoint where the problems are. I can't see any common links. Based on that, it probably isn't that easy for the Sox to find the problems other than to put a band on here and there, and they have 10x the information and knowhow that I do.

or Bullard sleepwalks naked????

I don't have a problem with fans expressing their views at all. I just think it is naive for someone to think that they have a point to make that will make KW look stupid or will outwit him. Being involved everyday, I have no doubt KW has an answer for every criticism the Sox fans can throw out there. Being heard is okay. Expecting to win a debate is not realistic. That was my point.

I have heard players will sometimes let their leases lapse and stay in the clubhouse during the last few days of the playoffs, since they don't know when the season will be over. I have no idea if Jeremy did that or how many guys did it this year, if any. I have never gotten the impression that they stay there more than a couple of days. Either way, it wouldn't be something rare that Reed did that no one else has. Sorry, i can't be more specific.

1. Buehrle 1a. Loaiza 3. Garland 4. Schoenwies 5. Take your pick from: Cotts, Rauch, Pacheco, Wright, Diaz, Person