ptatc

Yes. Probably too big. Unless as another poster suggested, they run him through some simulated games to add up the innings now.

Yep to each his own. I look at it differently. It was a good plan derailed by injury, unless they could have predicted the injury.

That's true. It's a good idea unless there was a lingering injury that effected his performance down the stretch and he needs it to recover.

I agree with all of this. However, I still disagree it was due to mismanagement this year. It was due to the injury and the innings it took away from his year. He currently should not be a full time, 180 innings pitcher next year. could it happen? sure, but it would be taking a big risk. They will need to skip starts or limit innings somehow next year.

2 and 3 are good reasons. After Hahn was allowed to do the rebuild they have made the playoffs in consecutive years. Unless the team takes a nosedive, I would find it hard to believe that a new ownership would have a problem with it.

Agreed. The pitchers did not look the same. The performance was very disappointing.

I'm still not sure this was the case. As others have pointed out many of the players still looked less explosive and slow during the playoffs. Was this the mentality of taking it easy or was it nagging injuries that they were hoping the rest would help but ultimately didn't Regardless the players didn't perform. There are many hypotheses as to why, all of which probably contributed to some extent.

The playoffs are still random in general. There are always some teams that go on extended runs. The Braves did something like 14 straight in the good years, the Yankees did too at times. But they also did not win the World Series in years where they were the best team. You don't need to feel great about losing to anyone but when you lose to the best team it tells you that the team may not be as far away as you think. The Sox aren't on tier with Houston but neither was Houston during their first couple of competitive years after the rebuild. The sox team will grow with maturity and experience.

I agree. Williams has always been a minor league, scouting, developing type of guy. With this team so young and locked up with longer term deals, he may decide its time.

Just as the team us getting good and consecutive playoff off appearances in team history? I don't see why he would either.

This I agree with to an extent. I think the injury was worse than they reported. He really wasn't the same after. Without knowing more about it, it's hard to tell but there definitely was something different.

so does that tell you that they are the only elite team in the league and the sox are in the group with the rest of the teams? Or if the Red Sox beat them does that tell you the Sox are even lower than that tier. The playoffs are so random that sometimes teams just get on a roll and steamroll everyone like the 2005 White Sox. To be honest the fact that Houston has been so good makes me feel better about the sox losing to them.

I'll reserve judgement until I see the Astros against the other teams in the playoffs. There is a reason some of the "experts" picked the Sox to win. There is a great deal of talent there.

No doubt. They do need to get better against better teams. However losing the ayers they did for a large portion of time did change the season. Not so much the playoffs as most of those were back. I would expect different results with the same group as most are young and will naturally continue to improve. Plus the missing so much time from Jimenez, Robert and Grandal. That being said I would really like them to add at least one high OBP player to either 2B or RF. They have power but an offense that relies on that is inconsistent Ala the Cubs. I think with the full season played this year the injuries will not be big of a factor for the entire league.

As I said just from the records they need to improve on it. But looking at the run differential give a little better perspective on the degree. The run differential and the amount of time lost to injury involved gives a little hope that the difference isn't quite as drastic as the record shows. A little optimism for next year, I admit. Maybe grasping at straws to feel better about the off season.

That is a valid question. He would not have thrown more innings but they definitely could have distributed them differently in meaningless games in the minors. Personally, I don't think it would have mattered much bit it's a good discussion.

Its not short sighted opinions. Everyone is entitled to opinions. He is saying that I contradicted myself somewhere and I just don't see it.

No doubt. It's just interesting to see the comparison and judge it that way.

So you think that an injury and missing innings isn't a cause to change the the expectation for next year? I disagree the lack of innings changes what should be expected just like his previous history didn't allow for a great number of innings this year.

You couldn't be more wrong. You can have any opinion you want. I have no idea why I would be "shilling" for anyone. I'm only speaking my opinion on physically what the pitchers can and can't handle. I've never talked out of both sides of my mouth. Opinions can change as injuries and other factors come into play. However I will stick to what I said earlier. If the Sox wanted him to be a full time starter next year he needed to be at 80-90 innings. I still think that was their plan. It makes sense physically. Unfortunately, he got hurt and didn't make those innings. Not by plan though. Since he did not get those innings due to injury he should not be a full time starter. I fail to see anywhere in any of these discussions where I contradicted myself. If it was the mishandled part, I still don't think he was mishandled. I think it was a good plan that failed due to the injury. If that is what you are referring to then so be it.

I would agree he isn't ready to be a full time starter next year. It was due to his injury that limited his innings this year. 70 innings is not enough to pitch 200 innings next year. He should probably be at no more than 160. I disagree that this was the plan and I still disagree that he is stuck in the bullpen. And it's physical therapist not physical trainer. I worked hard for the degree and license. Sorry, Don't know why this repeated.

I would agree he isn't ready to be a full time starter next year. It was due to his injury that limited his innings this year. 70 innings is not enough to pitch 200 innings next year. He should probably be at no more than 160. I disagree that this was the plan and I still disagree that he is stuck in the bullpen. And it's physical therapist not physical trainer. I worked hard for the degree and license.

Yep. It does take a little getting used to especially for an old guy like me. A heads up display would be cool with it. You don't have to do the one pedal driving if you don't want to. You can set it to drive like a regular car and use the brake. You don't get as much of the regenerative energy back into the battery though.

This is true. The injury caused a change in the expectations. Not only from a time missed aspect but also that he needed to ramp up again.

I don't think so. I believe I said somewhere from 60-70. I think they were planning on using him in the playoffs and he would have hit that limit.