ptatc

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:33 AM) Ptatc youve been making good points through out this thread. The problem with guns versus drunk driving, is that if you drunk drive you broke the law and therefore you can be subject to punishment. Conversely, if you are on the street and you fire your weapon in self-defense, and it ends up killing someone, you arguably have broken no law. I think we both agree that we want to stop innocent people being killed, its just how do we legislate against accidental shootings, if under current laws there is arguably nothing against the law? That is why handgun bans etc are useful tools, they allow people to be charged with a crime if someone innocent is harmed. I am always a proponent of punishing the person who did something wrong, as opposed to punishing society for the wrongdoings of individuals. I would agree with your point except that you need to start earlier in the situation. You can use a gun and drink legally. When they both become illegal is when you do something that can harm someone. Drinking then driving. Shooting an innocent person. I understand the situation of shooting someone could be legal in self defense but that is for the court to decide. My only point is that guns can be regulated without banning them just like many other situations (alcohol, controlled drugs). Punishments should be escalated this way.

QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:06 AM) Does Victor Martinez play baseball? Does John Danks? John Danks is the better player and is worth more to a team. . He can do everything he is supposed to do. Victor Martinez can hit. He can't play defense. Pitching is always more important than hitting just in general.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) You know those scary videos of foreigners in third world countries where men are all over the streets carrying machine guns and shooting them in the air sporadically? Apparently that's what the NRA wants the US to become. Remember those are the far extreme views. Not everyone who owns guns thinks that way. That is just a very vocal minority. The NRA does some very good things with creating and sponsoring gun safety courses. If everyone who owned a gun was required to take these courses, people like the mother of Lanza, would probably have had her guns secured better.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) I called it a lame comparison because alcohol is relatively easy to make yourself. Most people can't manufacture their own guns. Good point. However, we used to make pipe bombs and things like that all the time before the information was readily available on the internet. Your point is well taken that the use of a gun makes it easier. But in a case like Newtown, I think that nutbag would have just tossed a homemade bomb (which are easier to conceal) into the rooms causing more damage. When someone is that nuts and is motivated, I'm not sure much would have stopped him.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) If the fix is onsite police officers, than I have no problem helping to fund that. But I don't want non-official volunteers hanging around schools. But then again I typically have no problem passing referendums for most things education wise. I'm with you here. This entire week there has been a police car in each of our schools parking lot for an hour before school to an hour afyer it begins. Then again for an hour before school is dismissed until the students are gone. I know our police officers don't have much else to do in our little town but it's a good thing.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 08:55 AM) Now all of those lame alcohol prohibition comparisons can actually mean something now that people could create their own stuff at home. Do you really feel that it's worse for innocent people to be killed by guns than it is more a greater number of people to be killed by drunk drivers? In my view an innocent being killed is an innocent person being killed. I really don't care about how it happened. I care more about reasonable way to try to decrease them.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) I prefer a much more rounded routine with alot of change day to day because I feel it gives you a much more well rounded physique and caloric burn, however if you are looking for growth, focus is invaluable. If you really want to change it up only do eccentric or negative work. This type of activity is the strongest type of contract and will increase muscle mass the fastest. It is also the only way muscles gets sore.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:27 PM) If you're in the business of selling dangerous weapons and you can't secure them, then too bad if you get penalized. People's lives are at stake. I doubt those who'd risk stealing guns are stealing them to protect their chicken coop. Hey, I resemble that remark!

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:26 PM) He won't. Tyler Flowers is awful. I know we are a little out of MLB season and we may be forgetting some, but it was just a few months ago where we all wanted him gone because he wasn't a good enough back-up catcher. One that barely played. Now he's our starting catcher. Well, I don't think he will be. Hopefully Hahn has another move. This is the key. It's time to see how he produces offensively with consistent at bats. He did show flashes of MLB capabilties last year. We know it's an improvement defensively.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:19 PM) Isn't punishing someone for having something stolen punishing the victim? True but it may make them run a tighter ship. That is why I would give them a chance to improve security. It's like securing controlled substances in a medical clinic. There are major fines if some of them go missing and you can lose your license to practice medicine. I'm not sure about jail sentences though.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:15 PM) People keep talking about alcohol - - - several states have all liquor stores state-operated. This might help with gun sales? We do live in Illinois. Who would trust more with with design of a program to control of weapons sale: a private citizen or a state employee? (this coming from a state employee) In all honesty maybe it should be run by the State Police, they do run the FOID card system.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:12 PM) Gun dealers who lose a gun pay a heavy fine for each missing gun. A missing/stolen gun used in a crime automatically gets the gun dealer to lose their business license plus a heavy fine. I like the first part. For the second part I would probably give them 1 chance to tighten up security before they lose the license. Unless it was an unreported missing/stolen than maybe a jail sentence should apply as well.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:08 PM) I imagine bs's point is that it's yet another incident of a law-abiding citizen's gun falling into the wrong hands and that this gun shouldn't even be available for someone to steal in the first place. Edit: xpost Again I don't think it is realistic to think that a total gun ban will happen. In my view as we've discussed it shouldn't.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 10:07 PM) Stricter regulations on gun dealers. They have virtually nothing to lose when they screw up. A slap on the wrist is typical when guns all of a sudden are missing from their inventory. Such as?

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 09:54 PM) Nope. Stricter regulation is not necessary. How would more strict regulations prevent him from stealing a gun? The guy broke the law to obtain it so any regulation would not have kept him from it. Maybe a more severe penalty for stealing a gun, like an automatic prison sentence but that's about it.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Flowers on AJ: "He was a very mature, positive influence on me this year, helping me understand baseball and life and fatherhood." -- Merkin Such a scumbag that AJ is. If the best thing you can say about a team mate is that he was mature and a positive influence, it says it. It's just a player being polite and not saying "he really had not time for me." How about "he was a great guy and I'm going to miss him."

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 08:50 PM) I saw him playing for the Albuquerque Isotopes last year. Still has big power and can't hit a fastball. I saw him play in the minors and was convinced with his strikeouts he would never hit MLB pitching. His defense sucked on defense.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:28 PM) Which is why we've almost entirely lost the moderate wing of both parties, certainly where the majority of the country has been for the past 20-30 years, essentially moderate or fiscal conservatively but with more compassion for the poor and downtrodden than Mitt Romney was believed to possess (something like a mixture of Colin Powell and what "W" was perceived by many to be in 2000 when he was elected, with a dash of Clintonian post-1994 centrism thrown in). It's pretty ironic that the poster here who tried to bridge both sides of the discussion was applauded and also derided for naivete and posturing/placating/being a politician. I agree. That is one thing I've noticed in politics in general since the early 2000's. Everything needs to be one side or the other only and if you don't agree it's attacking the person not the policy. Personally, I'm more conservative economically and more liberal with education. I do however, think less government is better overall. Moderate is probably a good word. Mostly, I want to get my post number up to 3,000 and am bored on break from courses with only research to keep me occupied).

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 08:55 PM) I'm operating under the assumption, and bmags may be too, that duke is at least somewhat trolling here. This "the federal government would have crushed democracy by now but for our guns"rhetoric is markedly different from how duke has posted here in the past. I could be wrong and his views have changed or I've miss-remembered, though. This could be true. However, if someone really wants to have a discussion on how to improve the situation, it really doesn't help to do the same thing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:17 PM) He threw out more runners. He caught a bunch of rookies which made life hard. To me the Flowers love is based on an extremely small sample size of success and a lot of red flags. It kind of reminds me of the Josh Fields love in 2007 and the outrage when Joe Crede was the starter at the beginning of the season in 2008, and a little like the Lillibridge love last year. We will all see how Flowers fares,I just am real Leary about guys who have as much trouble making contact as Tyler does if he isn't going to hit 35 homers, and I don't think he can do that. At least Flowers has good defense on his resume'. Fields had nothing.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 08:28 PM) lol Do you prefer the "cliff?" It would be very effective deficit reduction. It may be better than having to make deals with the creditors of our (their) country.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 08:20 PM) No, because they have no money. To get those benefits, of course, most of them paid taxes their entire working lives. Sorry, that's what I meant. If they paid they should get their money. However, if they pass one of the versions of the state pension reform, I will not get a COLA at all.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 01:36 PM) We'll get the 'sacrifice' from millionaires of some change they found in the couch cushions in their 3rd home though! btw here's what other people will be sacrificing if they make some sort of chained CPI deal: But, hey, shared sacrifice! Do they pay the same percentage in taxes?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:47 PM) Sounds like a pretty reasonable list. You can also look at higher taxes for the bullets/ammo or guns, controlling the number of rounds one can buy every year, improving the nationalized database, some kind of test of proficiency/marksmanship (let's call it the equivalent of a written driver's license exam for those wanting a gun)... Beyond that, you really have to touch on the mental health side of it. A lot of these "mass killings" are planned out well in advance, with malice and forethought, but the pizza place shooting or the paintball shooting, it's about limiting access to guns, the ability to take one into a public place, keeping guns away from those people who are most likely to snap and solve disputes with a "shoot first, think later" perspective on conflict resolution. This is one I've never understood. Why would anyone want to take one into a public place? Growing up after a day of hunting we used to go a place to eat and people would have their shotguns in the place because they didn't go back to their vehicle. But just about every did it. But it's not like I would want to take one to a mall or anything.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:30 PM) And what a solution it has been! Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women. This why these discussions become meaningless. You don't have to make large sweeping generalizations to distract from meaningful discussion. No one implied there was any laziness or lack of effort in anything just a different opinion on what should be restricted and how to accomplish it.