Princess Dye

I was inciting arguments in the BA thread all game, not knowing that sweet revenge would be mine in a matter of hours/minutes.

QUOTE (Felix @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) f***ing awesome. You still suck DeWayne, but that was a f***ing amazing catch to save it in the 9th. The debates never die, heheh EDIT: which, hey, its a good thing i suppose.

Oh yea Wise has noooo jump on anything

Ho crap.

Cmon if yr gonna give me the flashback highlights, gimme the Parque or gimme nothing.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) Quitting on a guy? I'm not talking about that at all and I watered that question down too far for the sake of mass consumption. I'm talking about things like starting old and s***ty players over him after he wins the job over said old and s***ty player in ST. There wasn't really much doubt going into this year that he was close to out of chances with this organization. Well the old guys they started had higher career #s than Anderson ever ended up producing. So it's like, if we throw out what we know now, Anderson could have developed if played more. But he has played in these last few years a good amount--and never developed, so how do we go back and fault them for win-now moves that put older guys in the lineup? When you're recently coming off a championship that was built largely from unexpected spare parts, then the temptation is there to go with another reclamation project over a youthful project (that already failed in 06) I guess there's that camp that thinks BA would be a completely different player if he had nonstop at-bats after 06. I am not in it.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:17 PM) (the fact that he currently sucks notwithstanding, and this question is to be read at face value): If we qualify it this way, then Borchard was robbed. Mike Caruso may have been robbed. When do you quit on a guy? never? They pay these guys tons, and the org has to move on to the next good idea before the team suffers too much

Obviously I could get destroyed for this, but Alexei's OBP is approaching Coco Crisp levels, which is the guy many posters wanted leading off........ So if pods faltered next yr, you could start off AR/GB up top

Alexei actually is having a pretty nice year all of a sudden That BB he took yesterday made my eyes well up w/ pride

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:12 PM) The gap between Wise and BA on the basepaths is slightly in favor of Wise (Anderson is fast, Wise is faster) The gap in hitting between Wise and BA is slightly in favor of BA (this year, and going back to the end of last year) The gap in fielding favors BA (not really sure how this is debatable) The gap in plate discipline substantially favors BA (BA learned how to draw walks, Wise gets walked when the pitcher throws 4 balls at him) The gap in "clutch hitting" or "doing the little things" is either a push or slightly favors Wise - both are terrible fundamental players and I'd hate to have to rely on either to deliver for me ...all of the above considered I don't see how the advantage Wise offers on the basepaths outweighs everything else. At the end of the day we have a choice between below average player and one who doesn't belong on most MLB rosters. Would you say this year that in situations (especially recently, which sadly is what counts on this earth...what-have-you-done-for-me-lately)......... Wise has delivered in recent weeks, whereas BA in his last consistent stretch of getting on the field was mired in a slump? "delivered" meaning at least a little. which is the most we can hope from these guys with the bat. The thing is i think you throw batting out because these guys arent going to play much. It's defense vs. PR for the most part.

This is reminiscent of my old Eddy Curry threads on bulls boards. I fear it may end the same way.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) No, your first sentence means you're a BA fanboy right out of the gate. The thing is if someone comes out and states that 800 at-bats isnt a fair chance, there's the type of person that will get angry at how much bias that appears to show towards one player. Whether it's accurate or not.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) And I think the implication that Anderson can't run well enough to be a PR is a creation of people that don't like him (in these arguments, people pretend to have never read my previous posts, but for the record I've said several times that Wise isn't as bad a CF as he is made out to be). He can't run as well as Wise but he can run. It's not like we're talking about Jermaine Dye here. I think that makes my point perfectly. And yes I remember you being kind of anti-both in the past. But what we have is a modest gap between BA defense and Wise defense. A modest gap some might say between Wise and BA running, taking a base in the 9th. So we are choosing between two modest gaps. I agree with you. That's why I wouldnt be up in arms if BA was the choice, but why I think it's hilarious that people treat the recent roster move that DID happen as if it were Madoff The Sequel.

I think Ozzie looks at it this way. I need a pinch runner. I need a backup CF that is better defensively than Pods. Unless I want to remake my IF bench completely, I have to do this all in one position. So the choice is Wise. I think if we still had a Willie Harris type IF, then BA would be the 4th OF.

QUOTE (Felix @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 01:49 PM) Because those "clutch" stats last year were complete luck, and not what you can expect. More times than not, good hitters are good in important situations. The same goes for bad hitters, they aren't miraculously good in important situations. Wise just happened to walk into a few last year and because of that, he's getting paid a major league salary to have a sub .600 OPS. It's sad, really. Is it easier to run into one with Wise's short swing or BA's long one ? Yea, I'm pumped lets do this!! BA v. Wise Pt 913980 !!!

And when we have seen the occasional defensive blemish from Wise, you cant say that Anderson has been 100% incident free either.

I personally think pegging Wise as a bad defensive player is a creation of these boards. In close games, PR matters more than the difference in defense between Wise and BA. That skill is more likely to lead to a win. If Wise was a bad CF, I would agree with you guys. I dont think he is, however. We always hear about how bad he is there but the evidence lacks. Our bench does not have fast IFs. We need the PR skills.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 01:42 PM) Look around. Who's disputing this anymore? If people are saying its a huge crime that he was sent down, they are implying that he's near starting material. If we all agree he's a defensive replacement OF, then there should be no crime that a team would keep a PR instead of him. People are saying he should be starting somewhere else. Well we've had an opening at his position for awhile now. If he cant get it done here, it wont happen in the NL either.

I honestly think that all the BA-fans out there-- giving him undeserved ovations-- have given him delusions of grandeur. Whether or not we can call this a trade request, I think he is just wildly off if he thinks he's an everyday player. Even really bad NL teams, you cant assume they wouldnt rather just live thru the growing pains of a younger player. Brian had tons of at-bats, he's had his chance. I still cant figure why people think its this huge insult that the Sox kept a guy thats a better PR, and had some clutch PH stats last year. And a postseason clutch moment as well.

And i was about to post why-is-he-in-this-game

it's weird seeing Becks K

How much of his turnaround is the NL talent level, and how much is a real specific change of some sort? I have not followed him at all this year. It looks like he's coming off a string of impressive performances against some talented lineups

For next year we should sign Holliday for RF, stick Dye at DH. Then we have Getz, AJ and Pods still as lefties

Glad to hear we want hitters. I still feel the best move we can make right now, besides for an ace, would be a Rolen level 3b, move beckham to 2b where he's of most value.

O fer tha lovva pete alexei