TaylorStSox

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 09:25 PM) Do you honestly think it's impossible to evaluate how good a defender a player is without seeing regular games in person? Absolutely, especially for outfielders. You just don't get a good enough perspective. You don't see plays develop. You don't see how players position themselves. You don't see their jumps. You see about 25% of the play on TV.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 09:18 PM) No, I've never watched him play. This is my first White Sox game and there is an unfortunately large spider on my screen which is blocking right field. So you think you can make definitive judgements about outfielders based on what you see on TV? By that logic, you would have thought Jim Edmonds and Aaron Rowand were HOF calibre defenders.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 09:15 PM) By that logic, are any of us here qualified to say anything about baseball ever? He's a really bad defender. It's kind of obvious. Have you ever watched him play?

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 09:03 PM) I wish he was a 1 WAR player. His first 3 years with the Sox, he was 0.2, 0.1 and 0.3. He was -0.1 last year and is at -0.1 this year. Yes, yes he is. With all due respect, you're not qualified to call a player a good or bad defender. Have you ever even seen him play?

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:59 PM) I like Noesi alot when he is going 5 innings. After that... yikes. Still think he is the perfect LR guy down the road.. maybe even develops to be a #4-5, but right now he is a 4-5 innings pitcher. It's way too early to make any definitive judgements about him.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:55 PM) He is what he is. If he was a good baserunner and fielder he could be a 2-5 WAR player. But, he's not, in fact he's an awful runner and an awful defender. It adds up to around 1 WAR unless he hits more than 260/310/400, and I really don't think he can. He has plenty of PA in MLB and the last 300 or so he's had zero injury excuse. At least a guy like Eaton can contribute even if he's hitting 260. Viciedo just bring nothing except his bat, and his bat isn't very good. He's not an awful defender.

Abreu, the rare good looking fat guy.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 08:25 PM) They tried to give us a run but Flowers didn't want it Yeah, not enough twtw out of Tyler tonight.

Weird inning. 2 balls just crushed. 2 errors. 0 runs.

"The guy making the most money on the team is your cheapest player." - Hawk

Cabrera is fat. Fat people are ugly.

Conor can really handle the bat. He's a bit of a throwback.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jun 9, 2014 -> 02:44 PM) Adams at slot is an absolute steal. Maybe there's some validity to the theory that pitchers want to come to the Sox to develop.

Aside from tools, the first thing you look for in a defender is reactions, which are instinctual. Avi's reactions are very poor. This is also why judging defense with stats is so tough. Reactions and instincts aren't really tangible.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) Please read the first post. I did. Nobody said yes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) What do you think a qualifying offer is? Nobody advocated giving him a qualifying offer. around and round we go.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 03:09 PM) Getting good jumps is all about getting good reads. Getting good reads is recognizing the ball off of the bat, which is absolutely able to be helped by reps. Getting good jumps is done with the ears, not the eyes. It's done in about .5 seconds and is almost completely instinctual. You read the ball after you get your jump. A guy can be taught to get better reads and position himself better, but not to get better jumps.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) I just laugh at the people that think Dunn is worth anything. Do people see the market for Kendry Morales and think, yea, a guy 5 years older with stats half as good over the past few years is gonna get signed to a multi year, 10-15 million dollar deal? Come on people, get real. 35 year old DHs better have an OPS above 850 to have value. Hell, look at Ortiz, he's the most effective DH in the AL and he's ONLY getting 14 million and the Sox refuse to sign him long term. Nobody advocated giving Dunn a deal similar to Morales or Ortiz.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 03:01 PM) Adam Dunn has hit 9 HR in 208 PA's this season. Scaling up to a full 600 PA season, he's on pace for 26. Also he only walked 76 times last season, so 90 BB's aren't guaranteed etiher although he's on a good walk pace this year. He'll end up with around 35 like he does every year sans 11.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) Re-signing Dunn is less an issue of money and more an issue of player development, IMO. The rotating DH with four full-time OFs makes a lot more sense for a team that is developing young OFers like the White Sox I do agree with this.

35 HR's and 90 BB's aren't worth $5M? You know it's 2014, right?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 02:53 PM) It is also a lot of repetitions. Getting good jumps? No, not really.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) Just to stress again, "$5 million" for Adam Dunn would be an overpay based on the advanced metrics (both pages). It would not be "making up for the money the Sox lost on his contract" unless he significantly improved. And this would be another case where "advanced metrics" would be really stupid.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Based on Garcia's form at "diving for balls", I think there's clearly some room for improvement with coaching. It's also worth stressing that experience is a key thing as well in terms of reading fly balls off the bat, and that is a skill that could well improve with coaching/experience. Reading balls of the bat and getting good jumps is much more instinct than coaching.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 6, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) After 3+ years of b****ing about Dunn and his production, were on the verge from getting out from under his contract to move on and some would consider bringing him back? Oi! Would rather sign Paul Reubens to handle the DH duties. Who knows, maybe we could get Cowboy Curtis in the deal as well. If you can get a guy that's going to end up top 5 in BB's and HR's for $5M, you really have to consider it. Dunn strikes me as the type of guy that would be willing to take a big pay cut for the sake of loyalty and making up for the money the Sox lost on his contract.