TaylorStSox

First, Obamacare is neither a failure nor a success at this point. People don't understand it and the website has been a disaster. The policy itself needs to play out. With that said, comparing a social initiative meant to provide healthcare to millions of uninsured Americans to a war built on a lie is absurd. The only victims of Obamacare are Americans who will see their insurance premiums rise, yet receive a better policy. The victims of the Iraq war are the thousands of American and Iraqi citizens that needlessly died so that Bush could distract Americans while lining the pockets of his buddies as he financed the war machine. This is a strange thread.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 9, 2013 -> 01:03 PM) Someone brought up a good stat in another thread, his line drive% was the highest of his career @ 23%. He had 74 line drives in 103 games which is 22 more than he had his stellar rookie year in 7 less ABs. I really don't know what to think about Gordo. The changed batting stance looked like it was really gonna work for him...But then again I did just suggested the Sox go after Murphy. It's gonna be quite the interesting offeseason. Who determines what a line drive is? He had 28 xbh's in 408 PA's. Hes not driving the ball.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) Did Beckham steal your girlfriend? I do find it aggravating that Sox fans can watch a guy suck for 4 years and still make excuses for him. I thought we were supposed to be the smart fans.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:30 PM) Yeah. The thing with him is that he doesn't even look good when he's hot. He just looks like he's running into some balls. He has never really seemed " dialed in" to me. Hits just fall in for a couple weeks at a time. Right. Even when he's "dialed in," it's not like he's driving the ball with any authority. He's just slapping the ball around and getting hits. That's great if you're Juan Pierre.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 12:29 PM) I think the Sox would be making a big mistake in trading Beckham. He has a ton of talent and was showing it last year for certain until he was injured. You trade a person of his caliber and get what in return? Plus how do you find a replacement at 2B? Semien got a showcase for a month. L Garcia also. I like Semien but I think 3B is his spot or he takes the role Keppinger was supposed to fill. I don't think you do these stories with the idea it builds up trade possibilities. There are so many posters who call players seasons disappointing and let's talk specifically of Beckham. What are the realistic stats we should be seeing? Can one player be the teams salvation? It is a team effort and all pieces fit and make the contribution. You aren't going to have 25 all-stars on the team regardless of how much the Yankees, Angels and Dodgers tried to buy them. Beckham needs to stay. You don't create a hole in the team because you seem to have some pie in the sky idea of what the player should be doing productionwise Dude, Gordon Beckham sucks.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Nov 6, 2013 -> 12:02 AM) It means everything. Its pretty simple: Player A and Player B wont exist on the same team. Q1: Are either of these guys in imminent danger of going to jail? If so, cut him. If neither, go to Q2. If both, Welcome to Pro Football. Q2: Which of these two players gives my team, whos having a surprising playoff run, a better chance to win and a better chance for all of us to keep our jobs? Pick that guy and cut the other. Its just Martin is a colossal p**** undoubtedly raised to be a sensitive little b**** who first ran from the team then went to the media selling out everyone. Luckily he'll never play in the NFL again, I have no sympathy for someone like that. Snitches get stitches! Thug life! Amirite?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) Any metric that gives value for defensive contributions is WRONG You really take the stats thing personally, eh?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 3, 2013 -> 04:34 PM) All I want is people to rank him 1-10 and nobody will take me up on it. I give him a 2.5 or 3. 8. His biggest weakness is that he isn't liberal enough. He's been too diplomatic to the right when he should have crushed them.

The Cardinals stubbornness probably cost them a title.

Just a heads up guys, while Ramirez' power has dropped, he still has a ton of XBH. He also steals a lot of bases. He won't look good to the stat nerds because he doesn't walk much, but he's still a productive hitter and very valuable. Beckham's defense is incredibly overrated. Once we get a real second baseman, people will notice. His range is abysmal.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 06:02 PM) ok, if he's a switch hitter you've got a point, my bad for missing that. But the point stands, if we're signing a guy like that it really is being done with the idea that Rick Hahn thinks Josh Phegley is a starting catcher at the major league level and will show significant growth this year. I got screwed up because Navarro's numbers were so good against lefties last year, 1.123 OPS when his career number against lefties is .778. It's also worth noting that career against righties....which is how he'd get the majority of his work if Phegley was the starter... .650 career OPS. So yeah, he can switch hit, but his weakest side is the side he'd get most of his work. I actually still think Flowers has much more potential than Phegley. Flowers is flawed by having a slow bat. However, his swing is far more pure and effortless. I also think he has a much better eye, but is held back by his approach. He needs to be more aggressive. He falls behind in the count too much because he's trying to be patient.

I don't worry about Santiago's pitch counts. He needs to get a better feeling for pitching and know when to attack hitters and when to pitch to contact. It's all part of the learning process. If he doesn't, he racks up high pitch counts for a different team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) It would make sense if the White Sox were coming off an 85 win season and their CF had performed as badly as Konerko did this year. Neither of those are the case. Exactly. That's when you roll the dice.

To win the World Series, you need a combination of great pitching, good/solid position players and timing. I think our pitching is close to be good enough to get us into the playoffs and have a run. However, when I look at our positions players, I don't see many good/solid players. We'll know more by next year. Keep building, keep adding piece by piece. Get close and then hit a home run in FA to get you over the top. We're at least a year or 2 away from that.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) So what is your response to that statement. Do you admit that you're wrong that speedy centerfielders never provide value into their mid thirties? No, speedy OF's that are over 30 aren't worth $20M a year unless their name is Rickey Henderson, especially for this Sox team. I've already said that about 20 different times in this thread.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) Ok great. We are just telling you he has more to his game than just speed. He is a great defender, he HAS power (32 HR in 2011), he runs the bases well, he gets on base at a decent clip, he doesn't strike out a lot, he walks some. I just have no idea how his arm is, I don't know if I recall if it was good or bad or average. Basically he has a lot more tools than just speed, so even if he is only able to steal 20-30 bases in a few years instead of the 50-70 he has in the past, he can supplement value from other parts of his game. Yet, speed is the catalyst that takes him from good to great player. Due to that, he's too much of a risk. I don't want to pay anybody $20M a year until we know more about the young foundation players. There are too many question marks to add that type of an investment in a player over 30.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) Someone made an argument that Coco Crisp has provided substantial value into his mid thirties, and you dismissed it because of defensive metrics, which is dodging the question. Are you saying Coco Crisp HASN'T provided substantial value into his mid-thirties? How would you know? I never said that.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) I think the difference we have here in our argument is I don't think this is a rebuilding team. Like bucket, one of our resident insiders, has said this team isn't punting on 2014. Do I think they actually do add Ellsbury? No, I doubt it, but I think it'd be far from a foolish decision if they were to do it. Like you said in your post about defense you're not gonna change my mind on this so I guess it's pointless to continue arguing. Well, I hope you and bucket are wrong. As this team is currently built, they're really, really bad at winning baseball games.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) Well if you saw Ellsbury you'd be impressed. I never said I wasn't impressed with his defense.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) If this is true, how could you possibly have a valid opinion about how to value Coco Crisp's defense? When did I ever say anything about Coco Crisp's defense?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:20 PM) What is your argument for this? My eyes tell me if a player is a bad/good/great defender. I want to see his positioning, his instincts, his first step, his arm strength, the way he moves, how he reads the ball, the decisions he makes, his rhythm. Defense is an art, not math.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:13 PM) Like Balta said, he may not be worth that much come the final 2 years of his contract but he's gonna earn that contract the first 3-4 years of it and I'd say chances are he's still gonna be a valuable player the last 1-2. It's not like Ellsbury is a guy who lays down a ton of bunts to get on base so speed isn't the only component of his game and I wouldn't say he relies on it. He had nearly 50 XBHs last year in 134 games, he's much more than a slappy speed guy. Ramirez almost had 50 XBHs last year and is a fantastic defender. I sure as hell don't want to pay him anywhere near that. If the Sox want to spend the money on Ellsbury, I'd be happy. It's not my money. I still think its a foolish decision and it reminds me of something the Mets do. Rebuilding teams don't invest 1/6th of their payroll (optimistically) into risks like Ellsbury.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:11 PM) To be clear, I am totally with you that we should not be signing guys like Ellsbury right now. BUT The bolded statement seems very short-sighted without an accompanying explanation. Do you not value defense, or do you not trust the numbers? If it's the latter, what is it about the numbers you don't trust? Of course I value defense. I will never value defensive stats. Defense is evaluated with eyes, not numbers. Don't even bother trying to change my mind, it will be pointless.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) If all those things happen and you also add Ellsbury, who improves the team both offensively and defensively, and then also improve the catchers position why couldn't that team compete? Then going into 2015 Dunn comes off the books and you have plenty of money for an upgrade there and you're in even better position. Because they're marginal improvements and Ellsbury isn't Barry Bonds.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) Without looking to deep into it Juan Pierre hit .307/.351/.371 with 37 SB at age 34. Coco Crisp just put up a 4 WAR season at age 34. You want to pay Juan Pierre and Coco Crisp $20M a year? You don't pay guys that rely on speed that much unless their name is Ricky Henderson. Honestly, any stats that use defensive metrics to place value on a player don't mean a whole lot to me.