chitownsportsfan

Flowers will exit this game with an OPS below .575. At a certain point, you have to pull the trigger on him, it sends the wrong message is a player that is playing that poorly does not get replaced, I don't care if it's a "contending" year or not. Really what do they have to lose, bench Tyler and roll with Nieto for a month. If Sale likes Tyler let him catch Sale, fine.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:28 PM) The obvious counterpoint from my side would be "how exactly is that surprising with how hard the white sox tried to turn him into a reliever"? And my appeal to Don Cooper authority counter-point would be: Given how hard the Sox tried to turn him into a reliever (and given his struggles in LA) seems they knew what they were doing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:45 PM) I was much more angry with how Hector was used while he was here than him being traded in the end. Yea but doesn't it sorta prove the point about his handling with the Sox? He has starter stuff, but a reliever's mindset.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:46 PM) Remember when he started on Opening Day? Not too long ago he was our ace, extended for 13 million a season for five years, and considered one of the best lefties (I don't remember that but Michael Kay says it all the time when ChiSox play NYY) I just saw him as the 6th top trade chip for this year's deadline yesterday too somewhere The need is there and Hahn can take major advantage of it I remember that time well, it was before he tore he shoulder capsule.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) at which point will the sox get penalized for overspending If a club exceeds its SBP in a given Rule 4 Draft, a tax will be assessed and future Rule 4 Draft picks could be forfeited, depending on how much the club exceeded its SBP. (The club’s 1st Round draft pick in the next Rule 4 Draft is forfeited if the club exceeds its SBP by 5-10%, its 1st & 2nd round draft picks in the next Rule 4 Draft are forfeited if the club exceeds its SBP by 10-15%, and the club’s 1st Round picks in the next two Rule 4 Drafts are forfeited if the club exceeds its SBP by more than 15%). So basically they can go over by 4.999999% and not get punished, but anything after that and not happening. No club is going to forfeit a 1st round pick, unless there is a compelling reason.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 11:18 AM) I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a stroke of f***ing genius, but it was a good move. Funny how after almost any loss this thread comes to the forefront. Funny how much hang wringing was done over trading Hector and Addison, both have been awful and proves the Sox almost never make the wrong call on pitchers.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 01:41 PM) You'd be surprised, he's under control through 2016, pitching great at the moment, and isn't even 30...NYY is desperate for quality starting now too, really desperate, I'll admit maybe my propositions are a little too high but an actual deal would be right around there I hope Hahn uses that exact phrase when he calls around on Danks -- Orwell would be proud. John Danks' xFIP (I know, not the end all be all) is 4.76. His ERA+ is 97. He's a 1-2 WAR pitcher, aka a decent 4th or a really good 5th. He's overpaid by about 4-6 million a year and oh yea he had a serious shoulder problem not long ago. You could perhaps net a prospect in the 5-15 range from a mediocre system (aka New York's) at absolute best for him and you'd have to probably send 5 million or so along with it. Personally I'd rather just keep him and see if he can continue to evolve. I'm not very hopeful but unless someone is willing to just take all his salary and/or wildly overpay in prospects, I'd keep him.

surely the pen can get 4 outs without blowing this, good decision by robin imo. If he gets a long ab, he's pushing 117 and we just don't need him pitching another 10 max effort pitches.

Conor Gillaspie is blossoming into a star, no kidding.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Nieto can't go to Charlotte until next year unless the Sox acquire him outright from the Nationals. Ah, he hasn't been up with the big club enough? I thought it wasn't the full year anymore.

Sign him for prorated min, let him catch against most RHP, and then let Nieto get 200PA or so in Charlotte. That would be excellent all around.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 02:10 AM) If I were Robin, I would move Garcia to 1B full time and move Abreu to DH, that would allow me to get more athletic in the field and could fill some holes for the team going forward. I would do that, but first you gotta try and give them both time to prove they are durable and productive where they are. for Jose, other than some speed bumps early on, he's been solid enough (and healthy) playing 1B. Avi has straight line speed, an arm in theory, but perhaps not much instinctual play in the OF, we'll see if he can stick.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 12:28 AM) Flowers is pretty sturdy defender back there. Isn't the catcher position pretty abysmal throughout baseball hitting wise? Somebody was touting McCann for the all star game and he's hitting .230 with a .289 on base percentage. Obviously I'm down on Flowers the hitter, but it's nice to have a guy with a good arm back there. average catcher line so far is 249/315/387 even in that s***, puck awful run environment for catchers Tyler Flowers manages to be quite a bit below average. If Flowers hadn't had perhaps one of the luckiest (given his talent) two months of BABIP luck ever, he would probably be DFA.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 01:48 AM) Especially if we trade Viciedo for Erasmo Ramirez or Maurer, lol. Maurer for Viciedo would be such an amazing trade. Under Coop, Maurer could blossom into a solid 3rd starter, maybe even solid 2. His floor is middle reliever but whatever you trust in your staff.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 01:39 AM) Seattle's going to be a tough one to knock off No way, they are playing far above their heads. Now, you don't not get credit for games you've already one, but going forward they have the look more of a .500 team than a .550 team. The Sox aren't going to win the division without Noesi and Danks turning into Glavine and Maddox but I don't really think the Mariners are that much better than Chicago. The problem is that when you're 3 under .500 no matter how close to the top of the wild card you are, you're also that close to the bottom. There are a lot of teams "to catch" and other than winning like 45 of their next 71 (or better) the Sox aren't likely to win enough to make it. Historically, a couple teams or more almost always win 85 or more and don't make the traditional playoffs.

This is like a 75 to 82 win team. That's pretty damn good considering where they were last year. Hell, with a healthy Avi this might be an 86 win team. I think we should be giving the FO quite a bit of credit for turning this thing around. We have cleared out a s***-ton of dead wood and yea it's obviously not a great team, but it's a team that on a cost per WAR basis is probably twice as good as last year. It's harder of course to find marginal wins once you're already a decent club, but hey this is progress.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:24 PM) Or just try and get hit by the ball.. I played DIII baseball 8 years ago, I honestly think I could go up there and put up a similar line to what he's done the past 100 PA or so. For one thing, I'd f***ing chock up on the bat a little bit and look dead red fastball every single time. His approach is awful for a guy with that slow of a bat.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:21 PM) Whatever tweaks they made to Flowers' swing a few weeks ago has given him even less of a chance at the plate. I rather he go back to what he was a year or two ago and try and pull everything hard. I'd rather he go up there with a tennis racket.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:09 PM) If you are talking about Conor, he is batting 6th tonight Ah yes, at this point I am box score following the season and switched him and tank for some reason, I'm usually still at work anyways when the games are on (west coast) so less anger bubbles up in me (and to my customers) when I simply watch it unfold on the box score.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 09:02 PM) This line-up is so weird. Our coldest hitter still hitting 2nd. Tyler still playing everyday. Our hottest hitter, Viciedo, hitting 7th. Obviously batting Conor 7th took the pressure of him and allowed his awesome performance today. Robin is a Zen master.

Heck of a 7 hole hitter we got.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 08:40 PM) More like an enema. At this point I would be on board with trading Beckham for any live body A ball pitcher in the mold the Sox like (stuff, control problems) and start Semian the rest of the year at 2B. Or if not Semian, Sanchez.

I thought this year would be a bit of a cleanse with some new faces but my sunny outlook is being pissed on by the same old Beckham and Flowers. I look forward to never seeing either as a starting player on the Sox after this season. Flowers can stay around as a backup catcher if he wants, Beckham can just go away.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 8, 2014 -> 07:46 PM) Pretty sure a 695 OPS and 264 average isn't very good...unless our bar is set really low. Plus, he hasn't been walking or stealing enough bases for a leadoff hitter. He's been okay, but I'd venture if you look up the expectations the day he was acquired, they were for a 750-825 OPS line, 340 OBP, etc. Yea but the bar is low. We are in an offensively challenged era, to put it mildly, a 695 OPS and a 334 OBP from your good defensively CF is pretty valuable. That said, relative to my expectations I want to see more.

I'm with Caulfield I think Eaton's season has been a bit of a disappointment. Basically the book on him is "good player when 100% healthy, is rarely healthy, let alone 100%". That narrative is has proven true so far. He's got like .9 fWAR so he's hardly been a disaster but personally I felt he was more of a 3-4 WAR player and he's on pace for about 2. When 100%, he's a very good player. He's almost never 100%. That said, he's a solid starter but I don't think the Sox can rely on him for a monster 4-5 WAR season where he plays 150 games very often.