chitownsportsfan

Viciedo plays a ball into a triple, drink.

Viciedo flies open on every single swing now. His swing is longer than Beckham's at this point. He looks awful up there.

Rod Allan totally sleeping on Q, he'd only lead the Tigers staff in fWAR, but he has a losing record so he must only be average.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) Putting the ugh in Uggla! He's been awful, he personally cost Peavy a couple runs the other day. Sometimes I wonder what these front offices are thinking, wishcasting Uggla or Morales as anything other than useless replacement level players at this point is beyond silly. I guess every GM thinks that in the right situation an older talented" player will turn it around. Heck, KW did it with Griffey when he was washed up.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:23 PM) I forget where I read this, sorry. sea was trying to low ball the sox for DV as some other teams. they don't value what he brings to the table as much as the sox will not give him away. DV is only 25 and how long has he played in the majors? his prime is yet to come. Interesting. My personal opinion regarding Viciedo is 2 WAR max potential. He'll just never hit or run well enough to make up for his awful defense in a meaningful way. He needs to slash like 280/330/450 to get even to 2 WAR and I just don't see it, his bat is a bad combo of a long swing with awful pitch recognition skills. Yea he generates great bat speed, but it's a long swing and he gets out of front of the ball way, way too often.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 07:46 PM) It would be 25 per 500. Doh. Funny when I posted that I was like uh, 10% times 500 that's 50 and then for some reason forgot to halve it. I blame all the s***ty leadoff hitters in the past.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) In all honesty, it is pretty unrealistic that Beckham is going to put a team over the top. Same to be said about DV. Danks might really help you get in and I can even see DV for a team with really bad offense, but when you take a step back, these are some of our weaker links (excluding Danks) and both DV and GB are below league average players (thus unless you have a major sieve you are filling, they aren't going to be major difference makers). As I keep telling people, odds of this team significantly upgrading its talent pool are pretty minimal through trades at the deadline. The valuable chips we have are staying put and the guys we would be interested in dealing have very little, if any value on the market, and for Sox, only value is if there is a young player you can plug-in their stead. If not, not much of a point and you might as well "try" to see how much closer you can get and I wouldn't be surprised if that is Hahn's approach. The exceptions to this rule are any veteran reliever we have (cause they are interchangeable and we have plenty of young arms (didn't say good) that we can give a chance to and normally you can get some sort of intriguing low level talent for them), Alexei (and only if you can net an impact, major league ready top 75 or so prospect and another 1 to 2 high upside guys), and Danks (not because you'll get good talent, but if you can clear his contract, it is worth it because worst case, his production in the FA market can be replaced at that price, however, that would not be a preferred approach, as you can most likely find better production out on the market or if you can acquire the right assets, internally, and thus, if you can swap his contract and get flexibility, you do it. I also expect Hahn to be quietly looking at acquiring assets, maybe getting involved as a 3rd team where we are giving another team assets for one of the younger assets getting moved (who might fill better needs then the guys we move). The Sox must have been asking for too much for Dayan because the Mariners traded for Morales, giving up a decent young bullpen arm in return. Viciedo is way more valuable than Morales I'm guessing the Sox were asking for a a B level prospect.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) Greg started it! Wite said that Beckham wasn't the biggest bust in franchise history because he actually managed to hold down a job in the MLB for a while, whereas many other high draft choices never even made it that far. Instead of reading anything, greg saw that wite had said something NOT negative about Beckham, and goes "well the SABR guys think Beckham is good, wtf is up with that?" So then we decided to see how long it would take for greg to actually read a post. Damn, this is some minor leaguers pranking Franceur level ish. Hearing Wimpie talk about Gordon was depressing. This guy has the most outsized defensive rep of anyone outside of Jeter. Gordon is a solid defender with a strong arm but his range is average and so are his hands.

Eaton seems to have very poor baserunning instincts for a guy that has good speed. His SB percentage is not good and he's constantly sliding headfirst needlessly (and recklessly). That said, he's getting on base nearly 36% of the time, over 500 PA that's 50 more times that Jose is batting with a man on versus the typical 310 OBP of Sox leadoff guys the last few years.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) Joe Maddon is a pretty good basball manager. He did the exact same thing the other night against the Red Sox. He pinch ran for James Loney but only after he got to 2nd base. The Red Sox color man ( Remy) noted that some managers will pull a starter for a runner from 2nd but not first late in a game. Pulling up some research on this topic led me to this: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/9/27...ive-baserunning Interesting, but to really analyze the issue we'd need to know the % of times Jose goes from 1st to 3rd on a single verse say Garcia or Moises does. Judging from Jose's baserunning numbers on Fangraphs, it's not that often. He's not a plodder like Konerko thank god, but he's average at best. If I was the manager I would have just left him in there. I think pinch runners are over used personally.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) This. You don't want to lose Abreu if possible, and if you do, you want the best possible odds for scoring. Scoring from 2nd is much easier than scoring from 1st. I disagree. Most runners non PK style will score form 2nd on a single. Most runners non Adam Eaton / Garcia / Moises on the Sox won't score from 1st on a double. If you are going to take Jose out, you freaking commit to it right away and get Garcia or Moises out there so they can score on a double from 1st. Again, not even saying that the decision was that awful -- but the thought process is deeply worrying to me.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:07 PM) I watched this and nobody "forgot" anything. That obvious noob stuff is once again based on outcomes that would have been different had the players actually come through. But hey, 1-2 games per manager, who really cares then. Yea, because no team has ever missed the playoffs by a game. Are you serious with this s***? I can't tell if you're trolling hard or what. Riddle me this: either Robin forgot to PR for Jose when he was on 1st or he changed his mind once he was in scoring position. The possible explanations are: Robin doesn't really understand baserunning leverage (not a good thing, hard to believe since he played professional) or he forgot, or he changed his mind. All 3 options are awful, pick one. Ok brainfart, but Robin has a lot of brain farts.

So he has zero trade value, go figure. Well, unless anyone wants to give up a non 40 man player for him just non tender him in the offseason, the roster spot is more valuable.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:49 PM) So the players dont perform? And its the managers fault. Please continue the analysis. How many games better should the Sox be without Ventura? Dude, I'm talking about obvious noob stuff like running out of pitchers, "forgetting" to PR for Jose and then PR for him when he's on 2B, bringing on a LHP for the platoon matchup and then having the opposing manager make the obvious move to then bring on a righty PH and batting Gordon Beckham and Ramirez 2nd while the guy with the highest OBP on the team can't get out of the bottom 1/3 (Conor). And to answer your question, maybe 1 or 2 games at most. As I've said so many freaking times: managers don't really mean s*** in baseball but that sure as heck you don't try and get the best you can.

I love Frank but it's pretty obvious the guy has a bit of a self esteem problem that manifests itself as bitterness at times. I realized though listening to his speech that he's a pretty poor kid from a pretty poor part of the world that rose to become a 1st ballot HOFer and maybe that's why he always had a little bit of a chip on his shoulder, maybe he at times was a little self conscious about his background and playing in Chicago kinda contributed to his being over looked at times in the national media.

Robin is one of the worst in game tacticians I've seen, that's for sure. He routinely gets late game subs completely wrong and everything from his lineups to when to use the platoon splits to make decsiions --are often head scratchily naive, like decisions you'd expect from a 1st year manager with no experience. Except that was 3 years ago. One thing Robin won't ever do is make waves off the field or throw a player under the bus unfairly. Now, those are points in his favor but I don't think there is any way it's enough to keep him around much after this year. Managers have a shelf life and pretty much any manager will get tuned out after awhile no matter how player friendly they are. Robin isn't seen as much of a hardass / discipline type so I can see the clubhouse getting away from him and then you're left with nothing really to defend him on.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) Yeah Sale's ceiling is HOF level, that's what I am getting at. He's been burned a few times staying with the same pitch at close speed & that sort of thing. If Sale can show the extreme stuff, extreme deception AND become more of a "mind f***" pitcher like a Maddux or Buehrle then watch the f*** out because those numbers are really going to turn into "video game" numbers. And I think that's exactly the path Sale is looking to take. It's all about getting the hitter, getting the out, getting the win with him. And I love it. Yea it's amazing how he is now pitching to contact at times to keep his pitch count down. He's learning to throw some ground balls early in the game when there is nobody on, rather than going for the knockout every time. But he still has the strikeout stuff when he needs it.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:41 PM) I would LOVE to see what Sale could do with a brilliant catcher behind the plate. I think Flowers is ok, but put a guy back there that really knows the game and hitter tendencies at an extreme level & really that's what I think Sale needs. I think that because of Sale's experience now, if you put AJ behind the plate & Buehrle in the dugout next to him he'd take that next step. He's great but he's great mostly on stuff IMO. I think right now he's in that stage where he's learning to be a great pitcher with great stuff and IMO he probably needs a little extra help. I think Sale is the kind of guy who if he could develop a Maddux/Buehrle type of approach/mentality (and I think that's what he's trying to do) would be capable of putting up an ERA right around or even below 2.00, that's how great his stuff/deception is. Sale is a pretty special player but I still think he has room for improvement left. His absolute ceiling is otherwordly & I agree with the poster who said we're fortunate to be able to watch this guy every 5 days. And again in terms of overall ability, I could actually see myself picking up a baseball card 10 years from now, flipping it over, and looking at a single season of something like 220IP with an ERA of 1.80 or so and a WHIP under 1.00, that's what his absolute ceiling is IMO. He's that dominant. I really don't think there is much he can improve on other than maybe continuing to refine his command and perhaps learning to "pitch backwards" at times. I mean, he's pitching at a historically great level and if he keeps it up for 10 more years he'll be a no doubt HOFer. Kershaw is on pace to be one of the top 5 pitchers of all time, if Sale is only top 20 when he retires I think we'll take that.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) There's plenty of peripherals which are league and park-adjusted, and Kershaw blows Sale and everyone else right out of the water Eh, it's pretty close. Kershaw is basically slightly better on K%, GB% and K/BB ratio, but you can make an argument that facing the weak NL west and the weaker league in general helps in ways that don't get park / league adjusted. Basically IMO there is a clear tier, with: Kershaw Felix Sale ---- every else the differences in quality between Sale, Kershaw and Felix are almost indistinguishable but gun to my head I'd go: Kershaw, Sale, Felix. Chris Sale is really f***ing good however you slice it and we are lucky to watch him pitch every 5 days or so.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 27, 2014 -> 08:58 PM) Good idea to trade Reed, but a terrible move to waste 40 save value on such a flawed player. They were fooled by his semi-successful cup of coffee in the bigs - a 117+ wRC in AAA translates as a borderline MLBer. Bad scouting, I guess. Eaton trade looks good. RH will need to do better than 50-50 for the team to turn the corner, though. Addison Reed fWAR: -.3 Addison Reed bWAR: -3 Matt Davidson fWAR : 0 Matt Davidson bWAR: 0 The Sox "won" that trade, if anyone. Reed was smoke and mirrors and the Sox (as they are prone to) correctly sold high. Davidson is still young and will have a chance in 2015 to turn it around. Reed on the other hand has declining velocity (down to over 2.5 mph from his rookie year) and will be lucky to carve out a decent career as a middle reliever. Anytime you can trade a "proven closer" entering arbitration for a high minors 3B that has a 50/50 chance to turn into a solid starter -- you make that trade. Hahn has done an excellent job, really the only obvious mistake is the Keppinger signing. Some would argue (not me) the Rios trade was a mistake but other than that his additions have been spot on -- and for the most part, he hasn't spent much money or sold the farm to get good pieces. Reed isn't very good, check his stats. The Sox obviously have a good track record with pitchers and they correctly recognized his downward trend. Anyways, good to see the system now back to respectability even if the Sox don't hold on to all these guys it certainly helps to have depth to trade from.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) the list was 10. Darvish 9. Teheran 8. Kluber 7. Sale 6. Price 5. Wainwright 4. Richards 3. Cueto 2. Kershaw 1. Hernandez Pretty awful list. How in the heck is Scherzer not even on the list and Sale #7? Cueto 3? Richards 4? You gotta be bleeping me! IMO it's: Kershaw Sale Felix Scherzer Darvish And then a clear 2nd tier starting with maybe Price, Wainright and flavor of the week. Cueto and Richards this high is a joke. You can def chalk those stupid picks up to "guys that are good I watch on TV more often than other guys that are better".

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 09:27 PM) No way he's at 12 percent body fat. Yea, maybe 16%. He def looks like he's lost a lot of weight though. Some of that is probably by design so he doesn't get too anemic by the end of the year. Next spring though I think he can come in a little leaner. He's proven fairly durable so far and any problems he's had are with his feet so the benefits of the weight loss outweigh any loss of power -- if any, imo.

Danks pitched well but man, the Minny lineup is not good. Facing Danks, who has struggled badly with control this year, they go up there aggressive and Danks did a lot of pitching backwards it seemed starting with offspeed stuff to grab a strike. That said, I still don't really see anything that points to anything other than 4/5th starter out of John. He still doesn't have nearly enough command to pitch well at 88-89 but I will say he seems to have more movement on his stuff than earlier in the year. I haven't checked the stats, but it seems he's getting more swings and misses than earlier. Good effort from John, an easy guy to root for, wish he wasn't a facsimile of his pre shoulder surgery self but it is what it is. Offense wise, it was a few bloops and a few blasts and I'll take it. The Sox have a number of good hitters, they just need a few more average ones.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) Maybe your man boobs at a heavier weight would have protected you more. Yea, sarcasm aside, for most athletes (non NFL edition) losing weight is only going to help. An extra weight you're carrying around as you approach 30 isn't good weight. Just ask CC Sabathia what it did to his knees. When I saw him in spring Jose looked a lot like Miguel Cabrera in that NFL guard sorta way. Yea they are incredibly strong but they are also carrying an extra 5-10% body fat and that translates to an extra 10-30lbs. I'd guess that Jose came into came around 18% body fat and he's probably now down to around 12%, you can notice it in his face especially. If he can get down to 8% it should prolong his career at 1st base by a couple years. Nobody is going to mistake Konerko for Usain Bolt but he has kept any extra weight off and that has undoubtedly helped him extend his career relatively injury free. Jose would do well to follow that.

I think Tank is the most automatic out in this lineup right now, that's saying something.