chitownsportsfan

God this deal makes me want to wretch. Vasquez is overated, he posted a era+ of 96 last year. He's a gopherball pitcher who will be playing in the bandbox of the Cell? No thanks. Screw 2 years from now, this team has a chance to repeat, Vasquez weakens that chance.

Right, it's not groundbreaking, but many pundits have argued that the Sox are the "anti-moneyball" team, when that simply isn't true. KW might not be a Billy Bean acolyte, but he isn't Bull Duram either. The Sox were built on run prevention (pitching + defense) because the market was undervaluing these skills. That is what made the Sox so efficient with their modest payroll in 2005.

I found this interesting quote from the Sox management in an article about judging player value in the New York Times Interesting stuff. I think the "different popular method" used to determine victories is : Pythagorean Winning Percentage RF^2 ------------- RF^2 + RA^2 # RF = runs scored; RA = runs allowed. I'm not a huge proponent of this formula because I think it misjudges how "good" teams find ways to win close games that hasn't yet been determined from statistical analysis and probably never will. The confidence the Sox had in late innings and the calm hand of Ozzie (mostly) helped the White Sox outperform their pythagorean by 8 games. Still, I'm glad that KW is thinking analytically as well as traditionally about player aquisitions. Personally, I predict Thome and BA will be worth more like 30 more runs than Frank and Rowand. I don't have any stats to back that up though!

I'm really sick of the crap that gets thrown at sabremetrics around here sometimes. Nobody is advocating putting Stairs at leadoff. Nobody is "undervaluing" speed. This article seemed like a pretty fair analysis to me. I think when he says "overpaid" for Konerko he is dead wrong. The market was tight this year with lots of teams willing to throw cash around for a slugger. Saying the Furcal deal was a steal and Konerko's is overpaying makes no sense. We as Sox fans tend to assume that Thome will be perfectly healthy not just next year but for the bulk of his contract. Rowand on the other hand is a known commodity and is 5 years younger than Thome. I see where KW is going with this--he wants to win now. It does hurt to give up two promising LH pitchers though, especially when the organization isn't exactly loaded with LH prospects.

I too have heard that about BA Rock, but I'm not willing to say he's going to be as good as Rowand his first year in the bigs defensively. I think he will be a + CF but as good or better than Arow? I'll reserve judgement.

I recently read a very good article from the hard ball times that looked at pitchers HR/rate in 2005 and what we can learn from it. MB had one of the lowest rates of his career, which no doubt helped him to his best season yet. Unfortunetly, HR/rate is highly variable even for the best pitchers. I feel a strike first guy like MB is especially vulnerable to the long ball. Hopefully he proves me wrong with another low HR/rate year, but I would bet on his ERA rising as well as his HR/rate. Not to say he won't have another great year, but I would be surprised to see a repeat performance--he was excellent last year, top 5 pitcher in the league no doubt. That will be tough to repeat, but he is our best pitcher IMO

Deadspin is hilarious, but I always take these stories with a grain of salt. Although, Pods' story is very relatable for myself. I know I've done similiar in a moment of "must get drunk but not let people see it" moment.

"I just see absolutely no reason to be worrying about the lack of a lefthander or the health of Hermie. The outfield defense is much more suspect at this point if we're speaking about concerns, as of course the point of the offseason is too quibble about matters like this. Outfield defense, problem #1. Relief Pitching, problem #2. But neither of these are problems worth worrying about, at least not until Spring Training hits." Outfield defense? 2 of the 3 pieces remain the same, BA is projected to roughly the same of Rowand--less range, better arm. How is that a huge problem? A 24 year old closer with a history of arm trouble, a 22 year old Bmac, and legit concerns about repeat performances from Contreras, Buehrle and Garland seems much more pressing than outfield defense. I'm not saying that any of the players I've mentioned won't play well, just that outfield defense is a long way away from importance and concern compared to the performance of the pitching staff.

These are legitmate worries. On the first part, yea, a starter could go down, probably will go down at some point in the year. The good news is that MB, JG, FG and Contreras have never shown any shoulder or other arm trouble in their careers. The innings are always a concern, but these guys aren't coming off major surgery or even seasons in which they had to sit because of soreness or dead-arm. El Duque is the only injury concern, but his injuries seem to be the "take a month off" type--other than that he seems to have a rubber arm. Everything I've heard has suggested that Hermie's rehab is going better than can be expected. My main worry with him is some regression back to his career numbers. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised is the entire pitching staff sees some regression to the mean. If MB has as good a ERA as he did last year I'd be surprised, very surprised actually. Contreras has nasty stuff, always has, but his deal we mental, and that seems to be straightened out, so I actually think he'll pitch better throughout the whole season than last year. I think Garland ERA will be around 3.90 and I think FG's will be around 3.90 as well. Not terrible numbers, but not as good as last year. Luckily, this regression should be more than made up for by the extra 30+ runs that Thome is going to give us over what Frank and Crazy Carl gave. At least I'm praying he stays healthy enough to get 500 AB's. Jenks is really my biggest concern. How will he respond to being the number 1 guy out in the bullpen spring training on? It's alot of pressure and I think he's going to go through some wildness at some point next year. At that point, does Ozzie go back to closer by commitee? The LH out of the bullpen, I'm not worried about. KW will bring someone in to an already strong bullpen and they can be a the 2nd left behind Cotts. As was mentioned, any team in MLB, save perhaps the Indians, would trade staffs straight up for the Whitesox. We have the best staff in the bigs, our worries are nothing compared to teams like the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, etc.

Well, as another poster noticed, TB is desperate for pitching. Does this make them consider El Duque? Maybe not, probably not. But if they ask for Brandon, then we say, "no", and move on. Getting Crawford without giving up a major prospect and/or starter would be a coup for KW.

I have to disagree with you Juggernaut, I think the D-rays will be looking for much more than you suggested. Maybe Duque and Fields for Crawford. I don't think the are going to give up a quality young player just to dump a little salary. They aren't that broke.

Yea, Marte for Milton (Sox trade) is a bad idea, while Marte for Milton (Pirates Trade) is a good idea.

Wow, I'd trade Marte for Milton in a heartbeat.

Well "prospects" have helped net us Jon G and Freddy, so I'd say they "developed" in that regard. As for position players in the infield, I agree, this team hasn't developed an everyday shorstop, 2nd baseman, C, or 1B in years. Ever since I've been a fan (I'm 22 now) it seems like the Sox have focused on drafting and developing pitchers, for better or worse.

Well it's our job as fans to doubt the moves of the team, otherwise what fun could we have!... Anyways, I think it's a risky move to put him there, but hell, I don't know what Uribe is going to show up--the disciplined and dangerous Uribe that we saw in late August through October, or the hacking, free-swining Juan we saw for most of 2005, and throughout his career? I'd have to bet Juan falls somewhere in the middle, unless he really works hard to become more disciplined and take more walks while striking out less.

Sports talk radio is even further down the evolutionary telephone pole than ATH and Cold Pizza. Colin is a retard, as is Eric Kasillyass.

Will someone please remind people that we already have our starting CF in house next year? One of the rookies is going to get a shot, I just can't see KW giving up any value for anyone when cheap and decent options already exist in house

wow, this topic quickly devolved.

Yea, I'm not real happy about this whole world championship at all. Freddy is what, 30 years old? He doesn't need anymore strain on his right arm then is absolutely needed by the White Sox. So now he has to pitch for his home team in some gimmicky world championship--great. If Freddy gets injured next year the "I told you so's" will be out in full force, and rightfully so. He already pitched over 200 innings last year, he needs rest, not this. That being said, I don't blame Freddy at all, if I was in his position, I'd do the exact same thing. It's just unfortunate this has to happen after he already pitched deep into the playoffs.

Yea, it seems to me that Ozzie was giving his typical "off the wall, look I'm ozzie guillen the media loves me I'm getting a haircut this is news" interview, and in reailty, nothing he said will having much bearing on next year. Ozzie may like Owens and his winter league play now, but get him in spring training when Owens just misplayed a gapper and cost the team a run and you'll get the exact 180 degree spin. Ozzie's mouth is unreliable. Who knows what goes on in that head. He's a great manager though, if inprecise mouth.

"The Sox want a new number 2 hitter, nobody said anything about you wanting one. That's why Pierre has been brought up so much cause the Sox want to move Iguchi down to make use of his power." Great, they want a new number 2 hitter, I'd like a BMW, but that isn't going to happen because it WOULD COST TOO MUCH. I'd have to sell my computer and the cheapo car I have now and god knows what else, and boy I can't even post on soxtalk anymore! Although some of you would like that, I'm not going to make it happen ;-) Similiary, just say no to Juan Pierre. He is a terrible freaking number 2 hitter, god, go get a number two hitter, but where the heck is he going to play? Juan Pierre plays CF obviously, the only position on the field open for the Sox. So if Juan comes in he is the new sparkly number 2 hitter? Great, a guy with worse stats than Gooch and Rowand comes in and hits number two. uhg, I'm going to to the bar to get even more beligerent, hopefully I have at least provoked some raw emotion in the cold winter.

Yea, it would be nice to have a backup leadoff man, but it would be nice to have alot of things, and the Sox budget is near max, if we sign another utility man, I think were maxed out, given that Marte and Duque stay. The money Pierre makes will probably max out the payroll and preclude any chance of getting a decent utility type in case Kong or Crede go down, (who knows with Reinsdorf, but it can't be wrong to assume he thinks anything much above 85 million is stretching it, which we'd have to go way over if we trade for Juan and another utiilty type.) So given the budget, I don't think it's a wise tradeoff to bring in Juan, when a fine and very cheap option exists in the sox farm system.

Huh? I think something got lost in that translation. I think Iguchi is fine in the number two spot. I don't advocate any linup changes from last year, Juan can hit 9, I like that. I'm not sending any memo to the sox to go look for a number 2 hitter; I'm sending a memo to the board that the Sox shouldn't trade for Juan Pierre. We don't need a number 2 hitter, which is why we don't need to trade for Pierre, along with a million other reasons, most of which deal with how bad a hitter Juan is, and that BA can't be any worse while coming much cheaper.

IS HE GOING TO HIT LEADOFF FOR THE SOX. Sorry about shouting, but christ almighty, listen to yourselves, we need a #2 hitter--he will not hit leadoff if traded to the Sox. He will hit number 2, which would be a mistake. I'm not sure why everyone is trumpeting his OPB, it was terrible last year--.326...wow, quite the leadoff man. Career you say: .355. I concede that .355 is a decent enough number, but it sure as heck isn't noteworthy, not for a "leadoff" hitter. He has speed, but rarely gets on to use it. I'm kinda tired of looking up all these stats on my dialup, so if anyone wants to pick up the anti-pierre cause that would be cool. His 2006 salary is going to be above 5 million, FYI, which of course is about 4.75 million more than any of our in house options. Roughly, 1/17 of the whitesox total payrole would be going to trade for Juan, plus whatever talent we have to give up, and I have to think the marlins ain't taking El Duque or Marte, they want prospects.

Players on the Sox that had a better OPS than Juan Pierre in 2005: The entire starting lineup--yes, even such "heavyweights" as Scottie Pods, Juan Uribe, Arow, and AJ. Enough really can't be said about how bad Juan was last year at the plate. Juan Pierre, Career Splits: .305 .355 .375 .730 Arow, Career Splits: .283 .337 .451 .788 Both players are the same age. Now, Arow is generally noted as a good but not great CF with an average arm. Juan is a average fielder with a below average arm, kinda like scottie pods, actually, alot like scottie pods. Why would we trade anything for Pierre? Please tell me, we already have a Juan Pierre clone in Scottie Pods, we need a number 2 hitter with a little bit of Pop for crying out loud. It's hard for me to see Juan Pierre setting the table with a career OPS ops of .730, especially considering that he has played half his career in Coors Field. Throw in the fact that NL pitching is weaker than AL pitching, and Juan is almost certainly not going to have anything close to a productive year in CF.