Balta1701

If Tim Anderson finishes this season with a .715-ish OPS, like where he is now, he will absolutely fall out of the top 100. Montas's walk rate is 3.8/9 right now, which is on the poor side. He's got that 1.17 WHIP because of a low babip - below .240 so far on the season (had to estimate a couple things because not reported). This system is awful. I would put it as comparably bad to the years you're talking about and the major league team is far weaker.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) Abreu's OPS+ is 160 over his career. That would be amongst the top 10 in baseball in that timespan. The farm system will not rank 30th. Tim Anderson, Fulmer, and Montas are top 100 prospects. Our 2012 top prospect was Addison Reed (a closer) with Nestor Molina, Castro, Saldino, and Trayce rounding out the top 5 (Sickels). Our top 5 today is far superior to that and the depth is also stronger. No they are not. Maybe, maybe Fulmer. Possibly Montas if he has no down dips. None of the others will be.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) Fire Sale is the wrong course of business. You also have to remember as an organization, you need to be careful as to how you handle guys who you signed in the off-season. If you become an organization who quickly churns those guys, you will have a hard time signing guys in the future (without overbidding). With that said, Shark and Ramirez should clearly be moved, however, you should be careful as both could qualify for draft pick compensation, in which case, you have to make sure what you get is more valuable then the comp. I also wouldn't rush to move Alexei...I'd hope he would heat up and increase his value a bit. The other key is going to be probably moving another one of our starters, such as Q, if we can, to again, target young position talent. Or, moving some of our prospects for position talent. One way or the other those are the types of moves that must be made. Alexei will not qualify for draft pick compensation. They have an option on him that is for $10 million, cheaper than it would cost to offer a "Qualifying offer" (over $15 million last year). Basically, the White Sox are extremely likely to decline his option this offseason based on his performance this season and that will cost them $1 million to do so. There will be no draft pick compensation for Alexei Ramirez. Samardzija is likely still to receive the qualifying offer, but it's possible that if he keep pitching poorly the front office could actually hesitate on offering him the QO on the grounds that they wouldn't want/couldn't afford him accepting. Probably a low-likelihood scenario but worth keeping in mind.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) I have said it too many times now on contracts. And I was referring to end of 2011 (since I said 3 or 4 years ago and happened to pick that team) and the team heading into 2012. That roster had Dunn and Rios and Danks now signed long-term (2012). Oh and for the record, salary inflation is a real thing in baseball. Avg player salary is up 6.56/yr in MLB since 2011 (or 33% over the total period...3.2M in 11 to 4.5M in 15). So if I take the 2011 payroll (end of 2011), which was 129.2M and increase it by the 33%, in today's payroll dollars, the equivalent payroll would be 171.83M. The current 2015 payroll is $110M. So our payroll is $61M less then the MLB inflation adjusted 2011 payroll and we have one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball (Sale), one of the best hitters in baseball (Abreu) and another one of the best pitchers in baseball (Quintana). We also have the top pitching prospect in baseball (or one of them) in Rodon and the farm system ranks significantly higher then it did in 2011 (in terms of all publications). 1. In what world is Jose Abreu "One of the best hitters in baseball"? His OPS on the season is 10th out of qualified 1b and 39th out of all of baseball. 44th in RC+. His OPS is tied with Mike Moustakas (and Abreu gets the benefit of the Cell). 2. The Farm system will rank right back down at #30 this year, give or take whoever else is having an equally bad year. It was higher last year because of Rodon (Graduated) and some hope from players among Anderson and Danish, both of whom have seriously disappointed this year. 3. The White Sox drew 4,000 more fans/season in 2011 than they're drawing right now, there has been a large cut in ticket prices since 2011, and there will be another large drop in attendance next year. So while every other team is seeing that extra money, we're seeing continually eroding revenues. That makes it even harder for us to compete on an even footing.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) Fire Stevenson, DFA Flowers, move Danks to the bullpen and call up the Johnsons and Kottaras. It's time to start seeing who can play in 2016 and make a point to relegate long-term mediocrity. Beck is on the DL right now so no moving Danks out of the rotation any time soon.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:08 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2011.shtml Not seeing it. High payroll, below .500 team, lousy farm system. Sale was not yet an established ace (pitching out of the pen and not a lot of people had faith in him being an elite starter or a starter for that matter). Danks was already lousy and overpaid, etc. Abreu didn't exist. We had more bad contracts and no stars (including a few more years of Dunn on the hook). Now all we have is Melky (2 more years) and Danks (1 more year) of albatross vs. Dunn / Danks both for a long time and that team had no young talent to off-set it. We didn't have Sale / Q / Rodon / Abreu (in the off-season I'd have said Eaton but now we'll see if last year was a fluke) who are values. This team is so much closer. Every single word you just said can be said about this team and I think the farm system is worse. Oh and John Danks didn't sign his contract until after 2011. 2012 to 2016, 5 year deal. At that time John Danks was 1 year away from free agency and we chose to sign him that offseason. The albatrosses after 2011 were Dunn and Rios.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) Get off the high salaried 2013. Dunn was crap. Konerko was a shell of himself. Peavy and Rios were traded. Be fair. If anything, the surprising success of the 2012 team probably set some things back a season. "Robin Ventura and Rick Hahn cannot be blamed for decisions made by Robin Ventura and Rick Hahn." ™

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) A GM should get a window to build a franchise. If you went too short on him, the incentive and decisions made would never be in the best interest of the LT health of the franchise. I am not writing off Hahn. He has done good things and we are still better off today then we were 3 or 4 years ago. However, he has to show that he has learned from some of his mistakes, etc. Now hopefully Sox go on some crazy terror and we all forget this, but with the way they play fundamentals, that is nearly impossible at this point. 100% disagree.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) Sports isn't like a regular job. If you fired a GM for misses, you would be forced to give them 2 month contracts. But on pace for a .423 winning percentage over a 3 year period with 2 of those being high-salary years, and arguably the weakest organization top to bottom we've seen in decades, that's pretty darn good reasoning.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) ? I am blaming the players. Look at every manager's record that has been around awhile. Sometimes they come in first, sometimes they come in last. Do they just get really smart one year, and stupid the next? Baseball isn't like the other sports where you install an offense and defense and call plays. The manager/coach doesn't play as big of an in game role. In fact, it isn't even close. If we saw guys not trying, I would agree something there needed to be done. I am amazed the offense is this bad. I think even the guys who thought this team may suck are amazed the offense is this bad. The defense, we all knew wouldn't be good. The baserunning has been bad. They brought in Vince Coleman for that. Seemed like a solid move, but guys are worse. If, in my mind, I thought there was a 1% chance the reason the White Sox suck this year and the past 2 was Robin and the coaching staff, I would be right on board with everyone else who wants them all gone. The talent level was short the last 2 years. This year, the players, almost all of them, haven't played up to expectation. It's easy to blame that on one person, but it wouldn't be correct. Melky Cabrera isn't hitting. Adam Eaton isn't hitting, running bases or defending. Jeff Samardzija isn't pitching like a 9 figure pitcher. How can that be on one guy and not the guy actually playing? So the people who made the decisions to bring those players in made terrible ones and you agree they need replaced. I continue to be ok with that. Hell, if Robin could convince a replacement GM to keep him, I probably would be ok with that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 12:41 PM) But as Robin said, they practice it hundreds of times. There is no doubt that was Eaton's ball. Alexei shouldn't give the impression he is camping under it because, like most teams it will make the OF pull up. They shouldn't, but they do. It's still Eaton's fault all the way. People can blame Robin all they want. I just think that whichever other guy they want to have the job, if they were given the exact same circumstances, it's not like there would have been an extra 15-20 wins a year. IMO, firing Robin, and I don't think they will, isn't going to solve the problems. It will make some people happy, but they still won't go to games, and they will find someone else to blame when the same crap keeps happening. If Robin was fired today, and they continued to play like they have played, I am certain the fire Steverson threads would be popping up next. You're right of course. The problem is the same **** keeps happening. Firing the manager alone isn't enough.

If we don't win this one I don't know what we'll have to do to set up a win.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) Let's go around the merry go around again. How could that study have prevented this particular shooting? He's not a major gun purchaser. Aside from a full on background check, including interviews with friends and family (which still might not have been enough), you're not preventing this guy from getting a gun. In this case, yes, criminal gon criminal. Until you guys get your minority report future vision, there's not much to stopping this stuff. Crazy is crazy. (link)

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) While I think it's extremely odd, distasteful and embarrassing that states still do this, not sure how or why that's relevant to this situation. That's just someone creating an opportunity out of tragedy to further their own agenda. edit: if Charleston proudly displayed KKK flags or hats, then I could see it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) South Carolina's Confederate Flag Not Lowered to Half-Staff After Massacre Take Down the Confederate Flag—Now They're actually forbidden by state law from moving it or adjusting it, it must fly at full mast every day.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) and with that logic and caution, that is a definite thing to take into consideration. but that is why i was asking that question in the first place and my uncertainty of where, when he makes the majors. it not like i have him pencil into the #3 slot. but this is the only way to deal with this season. If you're ok with a .550 OPS from your number 3 hitter then you're ok with this version of Anderson hitting there.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) real nice. i saw it as a #7, i just wasn't sure of a #6 slot. his offensive tools are enticing. but it is K's that makes me wonder about #6. on a side note, i can see the sox #3,4,5 hitting good, and #6 with anderson hitting, makes it more potent. QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) real nice. i saw it as a #7, i just wasn't sure of a #6 slot. his offensive tools are enticing. but it is K's that makes me wonder about #6. on a side note, i can see the sox #3,4,5 hitting good, and #6 with anderson hitting, makes it more potent. To me this is like saying "and when Hector Noesi finds his stuff our 2017 rotation will look real potent." The problem is that having Anderson become a big league ball player is a huge jump! No one is asking where Hawkins would hit in a lineup because he hasn't yet looked like he will do damage in the big leagues. Saying Anderson as a #6 hitter makes it more potent is to me like complimenting Beckham and Gillaspie on how potent they're making our lineup while hitting 6th. They're not making it potent, they're pretty rotten! Also "I can see the 345 hitting good" would require a huge upgrade from this year too/.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) you are making an excellent point. here is a question, making the majors, for me, this is a foregone conclusion. defensively it will be taken care off as is. but offensively, how or where in the order do you see him? obviously, due to his K's, i don't see him as a leadoff or a #2. not enuf power for #3,4,5. that is me. your thoughts. Right now he looks like he'd fit well within the 6-9 slots in the 2015 White Sox batting order. In other words, not belonging on a major league ball club. Beyond that I literally can't project because he has to get better before it's even worth talking about and how he gets better, if at all, is key to the ability to answer that question.

QUOTE (ron883 @ Jun 19, 2015 -> 01:14 AM) Dump Robertson. Dump LaRoche. Dump Shark (hopefully his value raises by the deadline...) Hopefully Melky can somehow go on a hot streak and not be f***ing garbage still at the deadline. spend big on July 2nd prospects. This team needs a couple years of growth. Hopefully one of Fulmer or Adams can contribute in two years. Anderson will be ready by then. Just firesale and hope for the best in two years. Not sure what else to do. Seriously people need to stop mentioning Anderson as though he's going to be a saviour for this ballclub. From his AA performance any other team would be skeptical about him ever being an MLB regular, let alone "ready in 2 years". Compared to last year, his batting average is down but still ok and around .300, but he's hitting extra base hits at only 60% of the rate of last year so his slugging has plummeted, he has a .323 OBP and a whopping .715 OPS, he's on pace to strike out over 100 times while walking 20 or so times this year, and he's made a bunch of errors at short. "I've got a guy at AA with a .715 OPS" isn't a message that sells me on him even being an MLB regular, let alone worth having his name in a list of guys you'd consider "ready to help this club in 2 years". He still has talent, he has speed, he still is piling up the hits, but any reasonable organization would see his performance this year and think "ok, let's be patient and take our time, he has a lot to learn even at these levels". A reasonable organization would see that performance and slide him back to a mid 2017 arrival at the earliest barring a huge improvement, and then that reasonable organization would expect there's a good chance he'll need to struggle for a year or two at the big league level if he ever can take hold of a starting position. That org would also realize there's a good chance he completely busts and can't handle a position or the strikeouts pile up even more as he faces better pitching and becomes just another guy who drifts around after getting a short shot and come up with other plans. If he does better than that, great, but stop penciling him in as even a future big league regular until we see him earn it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:40 PM) They have had a lot of cheap hits tonight Put the ball in play against teams that don't have good range and don't field cleanly and that happens a lot.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:37 PM) I was half-watching. Why did we not take the leader runner there? Why throw to 1st? Infield was at double-play depth. Ball was hit too slowly to turn the DP.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:00 PM) Can we please not give up outs when we are struggling to score runs so badly I have no problem with JB Shuck playing for the tie when Abreu is up next and there's a really good pitcher in. Jose Abreu is not supposed to weakly ground out to the left side in that situation.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:57 PM) Yes 2.1 innings with 8 earned. It has been a very bad year for the farm. Now that Rodon no longer counts our system is right back to as bad as it was just about any point in the previous 5 years.

OH COME ON JOSE

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 09:36 PM) Tyler Danish went 2.1-8 tonight. Use him as a trade chip to get hitting, as he's not a starter. Is that 2.1 innings 8 runs? If so his ERA will be well over 4 in AA. Even people not watching wouldn't give up much for that.