Balta1701

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 08:19 PM) It wells deserved. Pitcher walks and hits a batter . First mistake was squaring right away. Eaton should have made him throw a strike . Maybe he throws a wild pitch or balks or there's a past ball. Eaton has speed the odds of him hitting into a DP are small unless he hits a line drive and the runners are asleep. Once the first attempt went foul. it should've reminded Robin Eaton can't bunt squaring around . He's ok trying to bunt for a hit. But the whole coaching staff should know all that. Doesn't anyone speak up or is it support your manager decisions 100% and no open disagreements ? Then he squares around to bunt again after he got strike 2 but took a ball. SO Robin had another chance to call the bunt with 2 strikes off but he did it again and we all know the results. Um, these are things a manager should know about a player. If they're flat out bad at it, you need to work with them outside of "9th inning of a game action". The important thing to remember is that Robin Ventura's decisions are everyone's fault except Robin Ventura's™.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) So if you didn't see the replay and the guys looking at the reply said he missed the tag, you are going to challenge. Sure. The fact is Robin was a victim of apparently bad information. If the replay guys had the angle we saw him make the tag, they need to be replaced. If they had what appears to be the rest of the Sox feed as both radio and TV said he missed, then it would be understandable. What I don't understand is why the Sox replay guys wouldn't have all the angles that are officially used. As for Alexei, he campaigned for several replays last season that didn't quite go as he thiught. And make a f***ing tag. He did make the f***ing tag. By "Make the f***ing tag" you seemingly refer to "touching the person approaching the base with the ball". Alexei Ramirez did that. The important point of course is that Robin Ventura's mistakes are everyone's fault except Robin Ventura's™.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) I'd like them to actually hire someone who's extremely intelligent, like Maddon. I don't necessarily want just another former white sox player. How would PK be any different than Ventura? They're like carbon copies of one another. Unfortunately, we're dealing with the reality of our organization on this one. Ventura really got through to people for one year, maybe we can get that magic again.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) Aso if you didn't see the replay and the guys watching the replay told you he clearly missed the tag, you would have challenged it? Yes. Easiest decision possible. No penalty whatsoever for being wrong, maybe even only a slight chance it gets overturned. No need to even wait for the guys upstairs on this one. It's the 9th inning and that's the possible winning run. Just get out and get the challenge started. Hell, the amount of time Robin waited around for news from upstairs was enough time for MLB to finish most of the replays in NY.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:55 PM) Or Paul Konerko. I'm totally expecting that next season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) If I had to guess, the opposite of what everyone else was saying. We'd be very angry at Alexei Ramirez for missing the tag. We'd then be angry at Robin for not walking the batter after the bunt to try to set up a possible game-saving double play.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:47 PM) I think he was safe, but yeah, the manager is pretty much supposed to challenge that. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:52 PM) Alexei saying he tagged him didn't stop you from initially saying he missed the tag, and you looked at some replays, Robin didn't. That's me mid-inning, before I saw the version that Tony posted. I thought he'd have been called safe because I didn't see the clear replay, but that's exactly the play you're supposed to replay.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:44 PM) My take is taking this out in Robin is wrong. He did what any of us would have done without access to replay, which he had none, and the information he received. As to the Tigers feed and all of that, I don't know if the White Sox have access to all of their angles, and as I posted if it is anything like the NBA, NY might not have the angle. I do believe both teams should have access to the same angle that would be used to determine challenges. I don't know if they do, and I don't think anyone here knows either. Ther are a lot of assumptions, but the fact is Robin has to rely on the replay people and they told him the tag was missed. No he did not. It's the 9th inning. There is zero harm to coming out and getting the challenge going on a close play. Even if he thought that the tag was missed he should have gotten the challenge started. Whatever the other deal was, that's the #1, unavoidable thing. A guy got 2nd in the 9th inning of a tie game and your SS thought he got him. You have the ability to ask for a replay. You don't even need to wait for the booth to decide this one.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) The replays I saw on CSN during the game it loooked like Alexei missed the tag.. He has to make a better effort making that tag.. If he did all the following stupidity would never had happened. Again, CSN did not show the best feed. Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 05:03 PM) Adopting the GWB, if you aren't with us, you are against us, strategy here? No, I'm saying that "the umps get to decide how fast the game needs to move on" to me translates to "your manager moved to f***ing slow and lost the game because of it". It's not a defense, it's an indictment.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:56 PM) Why is Bonifacio starting at 2nd? Johnson needs to play every day. I have never seen an organization love its medicore declining veterans like this organization. Bonifacio and Beckham both should be in the lineup against tough lefties like this. You could pretty easily convince me that Micah, Gillaspie, and LaRoche should all have taken a seat today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:52 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 6m6 minutes ago #WhiteSox official: It is "up to the umpires to determine when the flow of a play is over and the opportunity to challenge has passed." Do you think you're defending Robin here?

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) Can someone please give me a summary of all the hoopla? I missed it all. Garcia bobbles fly ball in RF. Runner goes to 2nd. Garcia fires throw to 2b. Throw easily beats runner. Alexei puts tag down and tags the runner on the foot. Alexei jumps up holding the ball in his hand after he feels the tag. Alexei does not hold the tag in place having confidently tagged him on the foot. Umpire calls runner safe. Alexei immediately pissed, looks to dugout. White Sox broadcast shows replays where Alexei's glove does not touch the runner's body. Tigers broadcast shows clear view of Alexei tagging the runner in the foot that wasn't visible on White Sox broadcast. Hawk and Stone never see the video of the foot being clearly tagged. Robin steps out, wanders around a bit waiting for replay view upstairs, gets notice that they don't even see a "maybe", does not challenge. Wanders around talking to the umps a bit and heads back to dugout after pinch runner is announced and game starts moving on. Presumably the White Sox's video people never saw the video where he was clearly tagged out, that video is linked in this thread and in the "fire ventura" thread below if you want to see it. Ventura did not default to just challenging it anyway, he ignored his SS, and that baserunner wound up being the winning run after a bunt and an infield ground ball.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) Wait what? Who has done that? Someone added this quote in the game thread. There's no way Alexei didn't know that you don't say things like that in public.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) Getting past all of the anger over the loss, this seems like exactly what happened. Also sounds like by the time he got new word, it was too late to challenge. Remember with the speed of play thing this year, one of the points of focus was to reduce the screwing around and standing around before challenging. The window is much smaller than it used to be when the Manager would come out on the field and stand there for two minutes. They can't do that this year. Then the default in the 9th inning on a close play should be "get the challenge started". In the time they stood around NY should have been able to get things almost done anyway.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:37 PM) keeping things in perspective, Alexei made a terrible effort to clearly tag him on a very easy out, and the umpire made a very bad call at a crucial time in the game. Of the latter two mistakes, I would ranks Robin's mistake in not asking for a replay at 3rd position. not sure where I rank the decision not to put a man on 1st with a runner on 3rd and one out in the bottom of the 9th. To note - based on that replay, Alexei did not make a "terrible effort". He got the guy on the foot, felt the tag, and got out of the way so the ball wouldn't be knocked away. He then held the ball up so that the ump could see he had it. He did not need to reach for the guy's body because he had tagged him on the foot.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:32 PM) Yea but you must be surprised at how sloppy they area? I mean, it's been a f***ing horror show of mental errors. It's one thing to lose and play a good clean game. It's another to lose and make 2-3 head scratching errors. Not in the least. Not one bit. Not one iota. It's literally what I expected. We've seen it 2 years in a row, why would I epxect anything different this year. Heres me calling a well below .500 season after a crappy start in the predictions thread. Manager wants to impress now? Get his team back in gear and turn this around. They're already calling him out publicly. Could still happen, but...

Is that a player publicly calling out his manager within an hour of the game ending?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:29 PM) If you are one of the posters who said he was safe for 10 min before seeing the other angle then you would have said dont challenge as well so dont act like you also made a split second decision. Thats a video crew fail, umpire fail and manager fail all rolled into one. I thought he was safe based on the views the Sox broadcast showed and I also said he should have challenged. Even if he were safe what's the harm? Close enough the umps could screw it up on the replay and help us.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:25 PM) Plain and simple, the team came out flat this year in what was supposed to be a huge season for the franchise. It's shocking that they're already 5.5 games back of Detroit. FWIW, I don't think it's shocking at all, it's basically what I expected.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:23 PM) The radio crew sure didn't. They very clearly thought he missed the tag. I didn't see the view on the Tigers broadcast until Tony posted it on the uTubes. The best view that the Sox broadcast got seemed like there was space between the two, but clearly that was incorrect once we got the high-def view. The Tigers booth got that and somehow the White Sox didn't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) What don't you understand about the White Sox video team. Robin doesn't watch replays. The guys who do , who advise him to challenge or not specifically told him the tag was not made. Then I assume you support their firing right? They could easily have just cost this team a chance at the playoffs.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:08 PM) Totally thought this was a night game. Damnit. Be glad you missed that.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) So there are two posts that look like he tagged him. The umpire is literally staring right at the tag....not sure how he could have missed it if he did in fact tag him but there is still no reason to not challenge that. It was on the foot, if he wasn't watching the foot he could have thought he pulled up early. That's literally why we have replay.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) The guy sliding was pulling up both with his slide and his foot. The angle on the youtube isn't really a great angle. The glove could be 6 inches from the foot. An overhead view would be best. If Hawk thinks he missed him, the challenge would be a longshot. Still, I don't understand why they wouldn't. Hawk did not see the view that was just posted here as far as I could tell.