Balta1701

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) I really think the majority of additions to the roster next season come from the trade market. I expect Alexei will be made available for the right return in the winter meetings and that Hahn will make a run at Tomas and probably at Pedro Alvarez as an alternative to re-signing Dunn. I think Alexei could go for a pretty good return as the Red Sox and Yankees are both likely to be in the bidding along with the Dodgers if they feel that Hanley either won't sign or has a future at 3B. Worth noting that Pedro Alvarez is a 2nd-year arb eligible player with only 2 years of team control remaining prior to FA. His salary next year if offered arb will probably push $6 million, and a repetition of his 2013 struggles with the bat could turn him into a 2016 non-tender candidate.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) Yes, I was simply highlighting some of the other guys who MIGHT be options. It's not impossible to do. The Tigers came up with both Rajai Davis (2 years, $9 million, basically the same as DeAza/Keppinger/Lindstrom) and JD Martinez (waiver wire), but neither of those players are true impact guys. They've been better than expected, but you have to add them to a solid/decent core of hitters (Martinez, Cabrera, Kinsler, Castellanos, Austin Jackson, Avila, etc.) And out of this list, 2 guys have OPS+ numbers of 96 (OPS in the low .700's, below average) a 3rd has an average OPS+ (exactly 100, .740 OPS), and the 4th was traded away for a pitcher.

I'm sure y'all can make a solid guess where the Washington Football Team Name discussion went, but in case ya can't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) How many seasons have the White Sox only gone with 5 starters for an entire season? I'll save you some time.........0. This is an argument for knowing who your 6th starter is, not for keeping a prospect you expect in your rotation long-term in the minors while awaiting an injury.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) What were the offers for Danks in June? I don't know, but I was replying to a post that asserted his bad starts in July likely hurt any chances of moving him, which you did not reply to.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) I want the problem to be solved, not hidden away from public view with a few farcical shows of "caring" by banning a term. Tell me how this is to be done. Still waiting for the first suggestion of anything that would ever make this ok.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Other then last year, Noah has never gotten very significant minutes. That is a myth. Twice in his career has he averaged over 35 MPG. Even last year, it isn't as if he led the league in minutes. Heck, his career MPG is just under 30 MPG and in 9 / 10 / 11 he average 30, 32, and 30 MPG. He was also barely able to walk in some of those seasons.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Right, but I'm not calling a Native American a redskin. I'm calling a football team a nickname in a discussion about football with a Native American. You can separate the two. If there was a native american sitting next to you and you were asked about the football team in Washington DC you'd feel comfortable using that term and be surprised if he or she took offense?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) No, you have imagined that too. Here have some dollars, now go away, doesn't help the situation either. So basically you just want the problem to go away because it's annoying you to hear about it but you can't be troubled to have it effect you in any way and can't offer any suggestions for what could actually be done to make "R*dskin" usable in daily conversation.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) Right. Star players play a lot more minutes, regardless of coach. Deng being among league leaders is less impressive when realizing he is just among them and has been remarkably healthy since Thibs took over (comparatively). When Rose came back last year he was playing 30mpg. Does anyone disagree with that amount? He's sitting for about 40% of the game. Would you still sit him during the 2nd half of a b2b if he was averaging 30 minutes per game? That was the specific thing stated and it is something Thibs has never done.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) I think those 2-3 terrible starts he had in July really submarined his trade value and forced Hahn's hand in terms of holding onto him. There were too many options out there who were affordable or whose contracts weren't longer-term commitments....guys like McCarthy, Capuano, Correia, Robert Hernandez/Fausto Carmona, Jake Peavy, etc. The reality though is that teams gave up actually talented players for some of those guys. That's where Danks could have fit in if the Sox were willing to eat a little bit of money or if the Sox were more aggressive in dumping him in June.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) I don't want to see Rodon penciled in as a starter at the start of next year. We need to have 5 starters ready to go, and call Rodon up in event of injury or someone gets traded. Ideally, we shouldn't call him up until June. Even if we pencil him in as a starter, I am sure he will be on an inning limit, and he won't be able to help much in a playoff race if we are in one. To make this happen we need to have an obvious guy we'd be willing to either trade, demote, or release if Rodon is tearing up the minors in May. If they're not willing to eat Danks's contract and Noesi is pitching as well as he has with the Sox, then that means they need to find an expendable arm to fill that rotation slot in April and May.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) I added in my original post that Noesi has been better with the Sox. He still is a complete unknown though. As your fifth starter, I think he would be fine. But when you also have Danks and an unproven third starter, it exacerbates the problem. I saw that after I added my post. The "unproven" third starter is where I'll come down on you in this one. If your "Unproven third starter" in 2012 is Chris Sale...you're ok with that. If your "unproven third starter" in 2015 is Carlos Rodon...yeah, I'm ok with that, and frankly I'd be disappointed if we went into the season having him obviously blocked. If there was a Felipe Paulino type added to the rotation to give Rodon time in the minors, that's fine and probably a solid idea, but you can't add Justin Masterson to this rotation and think "Oh we'll move Danks or release Noesi when Rodon is ready" because that's pretty messy and Noesi at this performance level would be a nice piece to have for the next couple years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:44 PM) Putting artificial barriers between yourself and another race, perfectly acceptable as an answer. Who cares they all are confined to reservations and were slaughtered by the millions... just don't call a football team "redskins". This is the same logic that goes into book banning. Someone is offended by the contents of a book, well we can't have that, let's ban it! We can't have an honest discussion of the history and problems behind the topic? Nah, that would make someone uncomfortable. Let's keep the ignorance fully in place. You've made a very profound and strong case in favor of reparations.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) The main problem with our team is the lack of pitching, in the rotation and the bullpen. Obviously, we have 1-2 in the rotation set. But 3-4-5 is a complete mystery. Offensively, we are 7th in the AL in runs scored, right in the middle of the pack. The offensive is probably fine. But we are going to have to spend to fix the rotation. I hope Rodon can handle a rotation spot, but Danks and Noesi are complete wildcards. Of the 43 qualifying pitchers for WAR in the AL, Noesi and Danks are 41 and 43, respectively. IMO, the rotation is the biggest need, followed by the bullpen. Either Rick is going to have to spend big on pitching (which he is probably averse to) or we are going to have to pray that we find the next Jake Arrieta and not Felipe Paulino. Again, for Noesi this really doesn't express what he's actually done this season. He's on the verge of being a >1 WAR pitcher with the White Sox and a -0.3 WAR pitcher with the Rangers/Mariners this season, and that's as a pitcher who still has room to grow in this league. I wouldn't pay him $13.5 million for that performance and I wouldn't pencil him into my number 2 slot in the rotation, but if Noesi is a 1 WAR pitcher and James Shields or Justin Masterson is a 3 WAR pitcher, then we're talking about paying maybe 5/$100 to a guy who will add ~$10 million in value to the rotation. That's a very different question. Danks, yes, he remains a problem and I'm disappointed we didn't do something to deal with that problem at the trading deadline when maybe you could have gotten a team to pay a premium "win-now" price in terms of how much of that contract they'd pick up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:34 PM) Again, you make my point for me. Instead of addressing the problem, we ban the thought. We push cultures further apart. The issue behind the evil unspeakable word is never addressed, and isn't able to be addressed, because you can't have an honest discussion of something deemed "offensive" in this country. What thought do you want to communicate using the term r*dskin that you cannot communicate otherwise? What pushes cultures further apart, stopping using a term, or the racist mother*****r who is using it? (George Carlin quote)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) Yes. Under what circumstances would you feel it remotely possible to strip a word with a racial history of its power enough that you'd feel willing to use it to a person's face? Can you give me an example of where that has happened? Even looking through words tossed at Irish or Italian Americans through time, I don't think you'd call people those today.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) You just made my point for me. Was this directed at me?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) I dont think it is hesitation as much as lack of interest. Peavy was far more interesting and affordable than Danks could ever be right now. Rios also trumps Beckham and Dunn. I think injuries to Lindstrom/Jones and belly flops from Beckham and Belisario really hurt any dealings that Hahn could get going, and probably resulted in the Sox having to pay too much to make it worth it. I wanted these guys moved too, but we see these guys every day. We know what they are really worth In order to actually play on the FA market, the Sox are going to have to get rid of some of these guys at near zero value. If they want a rotation spot available for Rodon they don't have room to sign a big time starting pitcher unless they can clear Danks out of the way somehow. They have held onto Dunn, De Aza, and Beckham, when there are teams that would be upgraded by each of those guys and doing so would save the Sox a small portion of their contract. 2 of those guys need to be non-tendered this offseason but why would they hold onto them until the end of the season and then non-tender them if they could save a small bit of salary?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 11:17 AM) These Thibbs comments get old. The Bulls didn't play heavy minutes to their guys when they had the bench mob, with the exception of Deng, and at that point, they really didn't have another guy like Deng on the roster. Last year they played a lot of minutes to some of their top guys, but even then, a lot of that was driven by constant injuries more then anything else. Really? Last year, counting Deng the Bulls had 3 guys in the top 30 in minutes per game including the #2 guy in the league. Deng's minutes per game dropped by 4 after he was traded. Deng was at the top of the league in both 2011-2012 and 2012-2013. Rose was injured for half of the lockout season but the games he played he was still over 35 minutes per game. Butler, Noah, Rose, and Deng have all appeared in the top 15 in minutes per game under Thibs and they've had a guy in the top 2 each of the last 3 years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Too bad we can't concentrate more on taking the power out of words, instead of being national censors. We'd be much better off. How would you suggest doing that? Is there any circumstance where you'd feel comfortable calling a person a r*dskin to their face? Or in this situation?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) I believe that they have the framework of a deal worked out, based on Hahns comments after the deadline. Hopefully it means shipping Danks out and bringing a RHP in I worry about the hesitation I'm seeing this year, the total lack of moves even just to clear guys out. Last year we at least cleared some guys out to create roles for people or signings. That hasn't happened since training camp started and it should have.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 12:41 PM) That's a hell of an idea. Swap Danks and Jackson. The Sox can pick up the difference or they can still pay Jackson $13 million while the Cubs pay Danks $11 mill (which, if you figure the Danks contract is a sunk cost anyways, is the same thing as DFA'ing Danks and taking a 2 year, $4 million flyer on Jackson). Frankly, Jackson had the most success of his career pitching for the Sox under Cooper, and his stuff is still solid. If he flops in the rotation, you can then try him out of the bullpen as a middle reliever and set up guy, as he's always had the stuff to succeed in that role too. The Cubs want out of that contract and Danks seems to be more of an NL pitcher at this point anyways where he can pitch around guys a little easier. Just an idea. You know how much I despised the Sox deal for Edwin Jackson. I'd consider this.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) This is by far the most important factor people are ignoring. We need to build around these guys RIGHT NOW, as Sale or Quintana could down at any point in time. Wasting the surplus value these players are currently providing is the dumbest thing we could do. It blows my mind people are so concerned about draft picks and the lack of surplus value free agents will provide. We have $46M in payroll commitments for next year and yet some posters are against spending anything of significance in free agency. Having financial flexibility is great, but it's damn near worthless if you're afraid to spend it. Take a look at what happened last year...the White Sox had their 1b fall completely apart and had an immediate opening for a 1b who could provide offense. They had no near-future options at that position and there was a long-term option available as a FA that immediately matched up with the White Sox's needs. The White Sox then landed that player. I don't think the Sox will hesitate to spend money if they have a solid fit available, but so far no one has convinced me that there are options worth spending on. A right handed starting pitcher would fit this team, but just with Noesi we're talking about a fairly young guy who has a good shot of being a >1 WAR pitcher. Sure a $15 million/middle rotation guy is an upgrade over that but if it involves casting aside the young guy who has outperformed what he's being paid it isn't as big of an upgrade as we'd like. If the guys we're talking about are James Shields and Nick Markakis, they're not exactly names that excite me a whole lot. They're not guys who I look at and say "This is the last piece we need" unless a bunch of other things happen first.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 20, 2014 -> 11:44 AM) They better hope Rodon is more Cory Kluber/Garrett Richards than the typical rookie pitcher. That's a lot of pressure. He's going to be constantly compared to Chris Sale, and this idea of bringing him up in 2014 seems ill-conceived. The White Sox are basically saying we believe in Rodon so much we're not going to add any free agents, it's on you to perform right out of the gate. Or they could be saying we believe in Rodon enough that we're going to make sure he gets the time he needs to develop into a big league pitcher and we're not going to waste money spending on FA targets until he's ready to hold onto that rotation slot.