Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) Are you coming off your stance that teams know what players are after 4 seasons? When I wrote Laumann said 2014 was a bad draft and HS heavy, therefore a HS kid taken with the 2nd round pick probably wouldn't be contributing to winning until 2020, you said BS. In 4 years teams know what they have. Therefore, we know what Rienzo and Surkamp are, and it isn't anything reliable. Again, his minor league numbers simply don't say that. ERA in the 3's at every level, moving up fairly rapidly after rookie ball, ERA of 3.27 in AA which is often the biggest jump.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) Quit putting words in people's mouths. He didn't say they couldn't use more. He said it was pretty damn good last year. The answer for more is not giving up a 1st round pick and signing a 30 year old starting pitcher. I'll even say it. The White Sox didn't need pitching one bit last year. They could have competed with their rotation as it was had it been teamed with anyone remotely useful.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) So you could honestly say the White Sox didn't need pitching last year? They had a pitching staff that darn well could have been competitive if they had anyone on the field worth a ****. And that's with Axelrod making 20 starts and Danks in the middle of a comeback. If their top guys stay healthy, I find this to be on paper a stronger, deeper staff than the one the White Sox ran out there last year. Axelrod has gone from 6th starter to 8th starter or so, and there's decent hope for Danks to improve as well. This team did not need pitching last year, it does not need pitching right now. It might well need pitching at the end of this year if someone gets hurt or there is a midseason trade...but we'll talk about that if and when such events happen. The 2013 White Sox did not need pitching. Hell, they traded away 2 starters and their rotation still sets up as deeper than last year. Had the 2013 White Sox remembered that they're supposed to catch that spherical white thing on occasion and hit it with a stick, they had the pitching to be a playoff team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Rienzo and Surkamp and Axelrod have been tried and convicted of being not so good. WHEN?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) If they didn't need pitching, no one in their right mind could say they aren't contending for a playoff spot. Last year, the White Sox came in 8th in MLB in fWAR from their pitching staff. All 10 playoff teams were in the top 19 in fWAR from their pitching staff and 9 of the 10 were in the top 16, so fWAR from pitching staff is doing a decent job of sorting out the playoff teams highly. The #7 team was the Braves, the #9 team was the Cardinals. Both playoff teams, one made the world series. The #3 team on the list won the world series. The White Sox 2013 pitching staff put up numbers 100% comparable to plenty of teams that made the playoffs. And yet somehow...they were not competitive for a playoff spot.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) I read a scouting report on him. It said his delivery got all out of whack. He changed it last year, taking some MPHs off his pitches but increasing his command. He got rocked in April, but was lights out the rest of the season. actually his mph last year was 0.4 mph below the previous year. He lost his velocity 2 years before that and never regained it, and struggled mightily for the first 2 years after losing it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:03 PM) Actually as a 26 year old Jimenez put up a 2.88 ERA with 19 wins in Colorado. The guy has magic stuff. His problems were/are mechanical. I don't think even think the people here that want to argue with me if I say 2+2=4 would argue with me if I said that any logic that says Rienzo is anywhere near Santana or Jimenez is flawed. His average fastball that year was 96.3 miles per hour. The next year when his ERA popped up over 5, his average fastball was 92.5. It was 92.1 last year. I believe the correct way to spell that word is "had".

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) Sure, if you want to watch guys like Axelrod and Rienzo get lit up, all is fine. At the same age, Ervin Santana's ERA in the big leagues was in the mid 4's. Ubaldo Jiminez put up an ERA over 5 during his 26-27 year old seasons.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) They also lost 99 games. I agree, they need to keep working to improve the offense.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) They used him out of neccessity not neccessarily because they wanted to. They used 15 guys last year as starting pitchers. That's 10 more than you think teams need. Wait, so they used 15 guys last year as starting pitchers and are going into the season with more obvious starting pitcher candidates in the minors than they had last year? Clearly you make a convincing case to add starters. After all, we're better off with a 9 man rotation.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) So that means that the rest of the taxpayers get to subsidize their lazy asses so they can follow their dreams or some other such crap. Entangle it all you want, just don't make taxpayers pay for it. My mother taught middle school for >25 years. In her early 60's when she was not eligible for Medicare, she had a knee replaced after several years of it causing a lot of problems. After the replacement, she could barely walk correctly for a couple years and frankly she should have retired. But she couldn't, because she couldn't get health care on the individual market, so she basically taught her class from a chair for the next couple years until she became eligible. Please call more people like this lazy asses to their faces. Please.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) Rienzo is just another guy. Hopefully, he'll find a role in the bullpen. As are all of the people you want to sign.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) The White Sox should know what he is by now. He is soon to be 26. Is that easier for you? Considering once you hit 30, you believe guys are just about done, your arguing is funny. And wow, they used him as a starting pitcher in the big leagues for several months last year. Following that logic...he's potentially a young big league starter in their eyes.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) First off, I never said he was in the organization too long. That is just more of your imagination. I said he has been around pitching since 2007. The organization should have an idea of what he is and what he could be by now, and I really doubt if we were able to listen in on the Sox front office evaluating him, it would be he is going to be a legit starting pitcher at the major league level. As I said, maybe a reliever. Axe shouldn't do either unless the game has already been decided. Rienzo is around 25 years old, hasn't been particularly dominant in the minors, and was tagged pretty well last season in his debut. Lots of pitchers get tagged in their debut, but Rienzo doesn't have anything that really sticks out as extraordinary or exceptional. How on Earth can you state "Rienzo has been pitching in the Sox organization since 2007" as a knock against him and a reason why we shouldn't believe he can be a starter and then disagree with my interpretation of you arguing he's been in the org too long? I can't even figure out a semantic game that makes sense there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Forget it, he's rolling. You're missing a t.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) I think Surkamp and Rienzo are like Axelrod, at least as starters. I don't know if you really have to see much to determine that. Rienzo has been pitching in the Sox organization since 2007, and Surkamp was drafted in 2008 and the Giants waived him, and the entire NL and the Astros passed. They might have a couple of decent games, like Axelrod did. But eventually the league will catch up to them. As relievers, picking their spots, not facing guys multiple times, getting away with reducing their repetiore, they MAY have success. But to assume they can be long term starting pitchers on a good team is a reach IMO. Rienzo was one of those international signees everyone wants us to make lots of and spent those first 3 years in the Dominican Summer League, and now we're down on him for "being in the sox organization for too long"? Why on Earth are we signing international players if that's such a bad thing? I don't know that Rienzo will have long-term success but he has a better profile to build on than Axe...particularly a better fastball.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) You seem to have a fetish that some others have on this board, and actually like to watch guys like Axelrod take the mound to get hammered time and time again before you are fairly certain they shouldn't be in a playoff contender's starting rotation. As I stated, there will be plenty of starts to go around if pitchers show they are worthy. Paulino has never pitched 140 innings in a season and is coming off a missed season. It is very unlikely he can or will make 30 starts. Rienzo has to prove he belongs. He hasn't yet. A stint in the bullpen or some more time at Charlotte could be good for him. Others will go down with injuries or if everyone is pitching well another team will need someone, because it pretty much happens every year except once . In 2005 the White Sox only used 6 starters. Wait a second...so the White Sox's rotation would be "Sale, Quintana, Danks, Jiminez, and EJ"...which one of those are we expecting to go down with this long-term injury? If we're planning for that...isn't one of the likely onest o go down...Jiminez?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) If the White Sox are so talented with starting pitchers that there is no room for someone of Jimenez's ilk, they are definitely a playoff contending team. Congratulations. You just completely, utterly ignored every single word I said. Well done. Well done and applause.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) Who said anything about not giving Johnson a chance? Plug whatever name into that slot you want. It works just as well for Paulino, Rienzo, and so on.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) Danks, DeAza, and Viciedo will not all be on the roster. If neither of the last two get traded, then Danks is placed on waivers Edited for accuracy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 08:56 AM) If the White Sox really have 5 to 7 pitchers as good as Jimenez as has also been claimed, they are going to be winning a lot more than 71-78 games. GMAB. That's not what anyone has said and you know that. They've said "we have the kind of pitchers we need right now". Erik Johnson might well not outpitch Jiminez this season. He's a rookie, rookies often struggle and take several years to develop. But that doesn't mean we should immediately decide not to give him the opportunity to start that learning process.

Apparently 3 people were shot about 2 blocks from my parking garage like 5 minutes before I walked there. Drove past an ambulance after I left.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:00 PM) So what. This was a detailed, productive, and useful addition to the conversation and totally not a waste of everyone's time.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) Well, it doesn't say that either. It just say 2 million people won't be working. That could be because they drop out, and it could also be because their jobs are being lost so that employers don't have to provide them with benefits. Like the guy today that went after Obama for this very problem. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/37030...-andrew-johnson As to the first bolded section, I love how you just poo-poo these things away. "Of course, this was obvious to begin with!" It occurring, yes. The degree to which it may occur, no. I read somewhere it's three times the original CBO estimate. And the seconded bolded there makes no sense. People are quitting their jobs with health benefits so they can....get health benefits? And ah, yes, the new talking point, "increased wages." Add it to the list of must-haves to cure the world. Of course...the problem with your anecdote is that the CBO report you just cited and deliberately misinterpreted actually, specifically states that it sees no evidence of a significant shift of workers to part-time instead of full-time. Here is the direct quote: “there is no compelling evidence that part-time employment has increased as a result of the ACA,” And yes, it specifically states that these people will leave the labor force. In fact, the detailed version winds up suggesting that a consequence of this is a healthier labor force because some people who are currently sick but working to keep coverage will opt for things like treatment or retirement. Again, to supply the direct quote: It literally says, word for word, what you think it doesn't say.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) The stars aligned for us for that to happen and he's no star at this point. The best positional players next offseason in FA are Headley and Hanley Ramirez. My point, FA isn't what it was in the past. Let's just keep churning out the pitchers. Ideally Sale/Quintana give repeat performances, Johnson becomes Floyd with a head and a heart, Danks rebounds and Paulino stays healthy. All of a sudden we have an outstanding rotation for ~25 mil. That may be a lot to ask but I like the rotation's composition all things considered. Beck and Danish taking steps forward with the addition of our #3 pick and all of a sudden we have a pitching pipeline for years to come. he's no star at this point, but the Sox did everything you asked for...broke out of their conservative mold and went after a guy who could be a star.