Balta1701

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) Well, the plan was to bring in two very expensive players in Hunter and MCabrera, this necessitating the need for a league-minimum second baseman. Those two very expensive ballplayers never got here. Which means you suddenly have to do one of two things: 1) Replace the two of them with other expensive ballplayers; or 2) start getting young, talented players at key positions by trading the remaining valuable veterans you have. My choice would obviously be 2. And if that's the case, you have to adjust your plan, rather than trying to stick with parameters of a plan that is no longer feasible. Isn't Richar the exact definition of a young talented player at a key position? Yes, he's not Kendrick. But he's also not chopped liver either. Hell, if the plan was to bring in MCabrera, then why the Heck didn't we hold onto Cunningham to use as a bargaining chip there? The Marlins probably weren't going to bite on a deal that didn't bring them along a solid OF prospect. If you want to deal Konerko, that I understand more than insisting on Kendrick as the payment.

QUOTE(bschmaranz @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) Toronto wants an MLB ready starting pitcher for Rios. Wouldn't consider Danks or Gio as that. (Raises hand) Um, didn't one of those 2 guys already, you know, spend a year starting in the big leagues?

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) I'd keep Richar on as a utility infielder and move Uribe, or I'd put him back in Charlotte for now. It's not as though he has such mastery of the game that he needs to be our starting 2b right now. That move was necessitated by the need to deal Iguchi. My point exactly. If this team gave up Cunningham, a valuable, A ball player in the OF, which happens to be a place where we're still trying to find players I believe...to bring in Richar to fill a hole, and then turns Richar into a super-sub...then basically they've traded Cunningham for the equivalent of Mark Loretta or something like that. Which would mean, to my eyes, yes, this team would be a mess, because it'd just be making moves left and right with no plan to even try to figure out what its needs are.

QUOTE(SpringfieldFan @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) I don't see this being about Detroit anymore; they are in their own category now. I think its all about wildcard chances now. We need to see how acquiring Rowand positions us against Cleveland. (Raises hand)...and um...those 2 um...teams in the East...what are their names...oh yeah Boston and New York.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) It's not so much that I am down on Kotchman as much as I would like to move Fields to 1b, play Crede at 3b (this season), and get someone like Kendrick back at 2b. And I'll say again...if this organization gives up one of its better prospects in Cunningham to bring in Richar, and then immediately blocks Richar with someone else and therefore kills his value because we'd have no choice but to trade them...then we are truly a mess.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:57 AM) I don't understand why everyone is down on kotchman, at this point konerko for kotchman plus a spect and either willits or figgins is a huge win for us. Kotchman would be a positive organizational move. I'm not saying Konerko for Kotchman + 2 would be what the Angels would do. I'm saying they might konsider Konerko for Kotchma and either Figgins or Willits. And maybe not Figgins after the year he had last year.

More on Dumond, including documents showing Huckabee was warned about Dumond before speaking to the parole board on his behalf, are avail. at the admittedly liberal Huffington Post.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:42 AM) I was thinking more like Carlos Silva and that would make us better clearly adding Rios and Silva and losing Danks. Ok, 5/$60 on Silva.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:39 AM) That's a fair point. Although I continually hear from some friends of mine with sources within the Angels that they are looking at Konerko and Teixera again... And if that's the case, their offer would start with Kotchman and go from there. And I doubt it would include Kendrick for either of them. They might try to talk the Braves into a Kotchman + Willits + a pitcher other than one of their top guys deal for Tex because that would fill all the holes the Braves have and give the Angels that bat, but that'd probably be with the assumption that they could resign Tex.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:31 AM) Agreed. I don't want Kotchman. I would try to get back Kendrick/Sean Rodriguez, or Kendrick/Mathis, or Kendrick/Santana...some sort of combination with Kendrick involved. But if they weren't moving Kotchman back, would that be a problem? I don't think that they'd move Kendrick for Konerko with any of those guys. They might well not move him straight up for Konerko. And like I've said, outside of their OF, they don't like blocking their kids. They have both Kotchman and Morales at 1b, and they have so many OF's that they have a rotating DH there. So unless they move Kotchman to pick up someone else, which is esp. unlikely now that Cabrera is gone since they have really no one else they can go after, they're not going to block their 2 cheap young 1b with Konerko at the same price as Vlad.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:12 AM) It's possible. I'm not sure why they didn't beat the Tigers' offer, probably because they didn't want to accept Dontrelle back. I know this much, the Angels have always liked Konerko, he is their kind of player, his salary is reasonable, and new GM Tony Reagins now has a working relationship with KW. Obviously I am just speculating, but he they would certainly be at the top of the list for suitors in a possible Konerko deal. yes, they could be at the top of the list for Konerko suitors. I just am trying to point out that you wouldn't be bringing back the 3 player haul from them that people seem to want. You wouldn't be pulling back Kendrick and Kotchman and anotehr guy, or Kotchman and a pitcher and Figgins. They just won't do it. Kotchman and Willits or Kotchman and Figgins might be what they'd consider offering, but they're probably not going beyond that.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:05 AM) I'm sorry, I'm not sure that I heard any opinions on this. Do you think the Sox should trade Danks and Gio for Rios ? That deal makes us older and more expensive sooner. That deal means that Lance Broadway is one of our starting pitchers this year, or we're spending 4/$40 on Kyle Lohse. That deal does not put us over the top in the AL Central next year or the year after, and I'm not sure it makes us better either of those years. I do not like that deal.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) OK. Was there a 7% number that was meaningful? Like if it was 5-7%, one thing would happen, over 7%, another thing would happen? When you are as old as me, '03, '04, '05 all run into each other. Link

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:05 AM) Absolutely. Which is why he is one of the few pieces we have that has significant value. I am specifically thinking of the Angels...I imagine we could fill a few positions of need for the forseeable future at the league minimum for the next few years. Thinking about the Angels, I must ask: When is the last time the Angels actually traded their youth to bring in veterans? It's simply not something that team does. They tried to do a Santana/Tejada swap a couple years back and got shot down by Angelos, but beyond that, they usually wind up involved in every discussion and it always, always, always turns out that they don't want to meet the team's asking price. It would have, to my eyes, been a cakewalk for the Angels to beat the Tigers offer for Cabrera and Willis. Between Santana, Wood, Adenhart, Kendrick, and Willits, they could have picked probably 3 guys and beaten the Tigers offer, but they didn't. And now we expect that they're going to completely shift gears for Konerko?

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:01 AM) Actually, KW is very sensitive to steroid usage. Also note that the White Sox were actually going to refuse the steroid tests AS A TEAM in '05 (or maybe '04) with the intent of driving the "positives" higher (a refused test counts as a positive) so that testing would become mandatory. (The labor agreement at the time called for initial testing to determine whether more than 7% of MLB'ers were on the s***. If more than 7% tested positive, testing would be put into place. Obviously, the number beat 7%). It was 03 and the number was 5%.

QUOTE(Hatchetman @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:46 AM) do you know how elias calculates this? No one knows how Elias calculates that stat. I don't even think Elias does. But the reality is, Joe Crede hit .216 last year and put up an OPS of .575 in nearly 200 plate appearances. For his 2 year average numbers (which is supposedly what they look at for that stat, your performance the 2 years before you hit FA) he would have to put up an OPS over .900 to drag his 2 year combined numbers up into the .750-.800 range where he might be considered type B.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:28 AM) I rather receive the draft picks. It's going to take a monster season from Joe Crede to move himself up into Type B free agent territory.

Couple points. First, I believe there's still some decent bad blood between the 2 sides after his first stint here. Second, my question again: Does the upgrade from Jerry Owens to Kenny Lofton win us the AL Central next year? Even if you combine it with another trade other than dealing for Johan, I don't think it does. So why would we spend the money on that? Maybe we get lucky, Jerry Owens hits .290, steals 70 bases, and then we can do the reverse of the Pods/Lee trade and sell him at peak value. Or Owens fails and Sweeney gets a shot. Or Owens fails and Anderson gets a shot to rebuild his trade value. If people do not think that we have a shot to win the Central as currently composed, then small measures don't help with that, and they don't help us rebuild either.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:32 AM) No Bedard is not our answer. Neither is Rowand. Bedard can't even go 200 innings. In our ballpark too, his era might be up at 4. That isn't worth the price you'll pay for him. Not to mention he is 28 and 2 years from fa? I forget how many. Rowand only solves the body in CF. A body that can be placed there after earning it in ST. We sill need a leadoff hitter and he isn't that. This I pray doesn't happen. At least someone caught my point. It makes a lot more sense to cry poor right now, take this season and see what we have, and maybe even hope that a smart trade comes around for someone like JT than it does to blow a lot of money on a marginal player for CF or SP or to trade all of the young guys we have for 1 other SP. I'd probably say the same thing even about Johan.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:26 AM) I didn't say anything about Rowand. If we'd land Bedard I'm assuming that Jerry Owens is our lead-off man in Center to start the year. Fine. Then my question is still valid. If we swap Fields and Gio for Bedard and extend him long term...does that make us a contender in the AL Central next year? Because if it doesn't, then we've just turned 2 cheap guys under our control into 1 expensive guy under our control and mandated that we're going to have to spend more money to fix yet another position. If you're making a move for a veteran now, you better be fully convinced that you have a shot to win the Central because of that move next year. Otherwise, you're simply sabotaging yourself next offseason with a worse draft pick and a lot less money to spend if a good FA does become available.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:23 AM) I agree with everything you said. Trading Crede right now would be selling low. The other side of the token is...how much higher would his value be 3 months into the season when he is 2 months away from becoming a FA? He might have his value go up from performance, but his value would simultaneously go down every day because he'd get closer and closer to FA.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:21 AM) I think the O's would do a Fields/Gio or Danks/Broadway/Anderson or Sweeney Make the deal- give us 72 hours to extend Bedard to the cool tune of 5yrs/75 million and we're good. 15 mil a year for Bedard? Ummmmmm yeah. Especially if we're even considering 13.5 for Rowand. Let me ask you folks this. Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost. Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2. Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades? If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem.

Damn, how many times have I gone through those crossings...

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:11 AM) You don't think maybe the O's would like PK? They tried for him before. And Bedard is being shopped. Konerko helps the Orioles less than not at all. Of course, with their management, I wouldn't rule out them making a deal of that level of silliness.

QUOTE(rockren @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:05 AM) Is he the flavor of the day? The Silva 5/$60 gave me a chuckle yesterday. This just sounds like you blowing off steam this morning. According to press reports, I've actually underestimated what Lohse's asking price is. Tomorrow, someone will say how we're so desperate for a starting pitcher, and I'll respond that the clear solution is 6/$70 for Livan Hernandez.