Balta1701

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) I don't think you should rate someone's speed by how many bases they attempt to steal. Just because Cano doesn't steal a lot doesn't mean he's not fast but rather that he is just ins't good at getting reads and jumps. I think he is pretty fast guy as he does have 4 triples this season. That's how I'll judge his speed. I think that's totally logical...but on the other hand, it's not like there is no benefit to actually stealing bases with your speed, and his seeming lack of skill at stealing bases is something of a knock against him. We may add speed overall with such a deal, but lose some stolen bases at the same time, which is an interesting little change.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) I don't know. As much as I love the idea of two high picks, the likelihood of those two players ever reaching the level that Cano is currently at is highly doubtful. Personally, I'd say that the odds would be in favor of 1 of the 2 reaching that level...but on top of that, this is still the White Sox...what do we usually wind up doing with top prospects? We wind up trading them fairly often. McCarthy, Reed, Gio, etc. Yes, we're altering that strategy a bit these days, but still, a former first round pick putting up decent numbers in the minors has pretty darn good value in trades. And on top of that, if either of them did make it to the big leagues with the Sox, we'd have several years more control over them than we would with Cano. If I thought this team was set for another title run in 08, I might be more willing to grab Cano and lose the draft picks. But unless Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, and a bunch of pitchers develop faster than what we've come to expect, then I think we're probably better off planning for the longer term, because we'll be waiting on those top draft picks from 08 and 09 to come up and fill holes. So as far as I'm concerned, the more of those type of guys we have, the better shape we're in.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:49 PM) Given that both Dye and Iguchi are free agents next year and are both entering the down-slopes of their careers, I'd strongly consider doing that deal. Unfortuntaely, Dye picked the wrong season to put up crap-tacular numbers at the plate. Well, for me, I'd sit here and compare the value of Cano with the value of the value of an additional probably mid to late first round draft pick and a sandwich pick, which is what we're almost certain to get for JD if he walks, and I think that unless we find some major talent for next year somewhere, the 2 draft picks have a much higher value to me.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) Jeez, you guys are ridiculous. Would we rather have Cano than Iguchi? Yes. Is Cano a great hitter? No. Is Cano better than Iguchi? Yes. So then the question is...how much is Cano worth to the White Sox? Is Cano worth Buehrle straight up? Hell no. Is Cano worth Dye straight up? I'd say probably not. So...what else would have to be included to make either deal work that the Yankees have and might be willing to part with?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:32 PM) Nobody's going to trade for a player recovering from a back injury. Still, I could see KW and JR trying to get an arbitrator to cut his salary significantly next year. If he's able to come back from surgery and play at a decent level for the first few months next year, he might be worth something before the deadline next year. It might not be a bad gamble if the price were right (say, $2-3 million). I doubt they'd actually be able to cut his salary that much, but when it comes down to it, Joe's only making $4.94 mil this year, and because of the surgery, he's certainly not comign back and making more than that next year in arbitration.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT!!! IT'S DIFFERENT! Once a hypocritical d'bag, always a hypocritical d'bag. Yeah, because nothing at all could have changed between 1992 and 2003. Like, say, the dismantling of Saddam's entire WMD program by the UNSCOM team and the Operation Rommel bombings and its confirmation by UNMOVIC. I really am starting to hate this type of stuff. You're never allowed to reanalyze things 10 years later based on new information, because otherwise we get "oh it's always different!" as a response. Was Al right in 92 back when the speech was made, I believe? I haven't a clue. But to say that you can't have supported stronger containment measures against Saddam back in 92 and opposed the war 11 years later is just silly. Based on this, we should never have invaded Afghanistan, because in 1992, Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban were not a threat to us. Has anyone else considered at all that the complete refusal of one man to ever reevaluate his decisions based on new evidence is in fact one of the biggest reasons why the Middle East is falling apart these days?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) Barry Bonds had an IsoD (OBP - BA) of 107 as a rookie, 68 his second year, 85 his 3rd year and 103 his 4th year. Robinson Cano's have been 23, 23 and 38 over the past 3 years. Barry Bonds had a low OBP because his batting average was below .260, he was still drawing a whole lot of walks but it wasn't showing because he wasn't hitting for particularly good contact. And of course, there are still those pernicious reports, i.e. published in Game of Shadows, that abusing large doses of HGH does have a habit of improving one's eyesight

Oh, MIGUEL Cabrera? I figured this thread was about Melky Cabrera, someone who we might have a shot at. I think the Marlins might trade you their Cabrera if you could go back in time and give them that 2005 World Series win. And you threw in Danks.

Wow, I think we're actually guaranteed to make it through our full lineup 4 times. Does anyone else think it's been a while since that happened?

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 12:35 PM) Am i insane since this team now makes me laugh? If you're not laughing at this team today, you're probably suicidal.

Jerry Crasnick, emphasis his.

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) I just noticed... why the hell is Cintron at SS and Uribe at 2nd... Gameday has Cintron @ 2b and Uribe @ SS?

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) Is Uribe below .200 yet? He needs to go hitless in another 9 at bats for that to happen.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:34 AM) Magglio's backloaded contract kinda sucked. $3.75 million in 2001, and $14 million in 2004. He wasn't worth $14 million at the time and the Sox were screwed with compensation picks because there's no way they could guarantee him 80% of $14 million. The only reason that contract wound up sucking was that Magglio got hurt. If he was healthy, a $14 mil arbitration offer would have been something the Sox would have been more than happy to do, considering that the Tigers paid him $15 mil a year for 5 years that offseason.

I think we should blame Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy for this.

Which is of course why Ichiro is on his way here next year...familiarity!

I read the title of this thread, and thought..."That's the answer...tetrahydrogestrinone!"

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:30 PM) The D-Rays should have never gotten Kazmir for a guy like Zambrano, but I agree with everything you say. In fact, in another thread, I said I would prefer a package of something like Pelfrey, Humber, and a young OF like Fernando Martinez for Buehrle if we traded with the Mets, for example. Or something similar from another team. I can't imagine any team giving up that much.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) Again, I have no disagreement with this argument. My concern is forming of the perception of "Fast Kenny" dumping tired and broken pitchers on teams. So if KW tries to shop Jose this winter, I suspect he need not even call Philly. Even though Philly should have ordered the physical, the Philly GM can try and go to the press make KW look bad/get sympathy because he got a broken Freddy Garcia. If the networks like say ...ESPN, run with it, it could damage our ability to trade in the future. I think the first line of the ESPN piece sums things up well:

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:06 PM) Remind me not to go swimming in that area... Earth?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) So, we know now why KW jumped at the phils offer. He was probably going to deal him to the first team that wouldnt do a physical before the trade. As soon as the Phils said they wouldnt, he pulled the trigger. The more time that passes, the more happy I am with what we got out of this deal, especially now that Floyd may be showing the occasional sign of life.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) It would be asinine to trade Dye for anything less then 2 good prospects/young ML players because it is a guarante that we get the 2 draft picks in free agency anyway. Unless you get 1 really, really good player.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) Well lets think about this: If we can swing for another just about ready for the bigs SP like Danks/Gio. We could swing some of that saved cash, deal one of our other starters and big an even bigger splash this upcoming offseason. If we could keep Buehrle, insert either Gio or another young guy into the rotation and take some of Dye, Gooch, etc's sal to land maybe Ichiro or something like that, we keep fans, get younger and move forward. I hate to say it, but if we're swinging a deal for someone, I really don't want us to swing a deal for starting pitching unless we're moving someone like Vazquez, Contreras, or Garland in the deal. Amazingly, I think we're holding our own pretty well on young pitching. Danks, Gio, Russell, Broadway and maybe something salvageable out of Floyd and Haeger give us at least 3-4 good young pitchers who can/should be in the rotation within 2 years, and maybe you throw in something useful in 3 years out of this draft like Poreda, and we may well have enough starting pitching talent to survive even if a couple guys blow up. We need position players. Desperately. We need 2 infielders and at least 1 OF, if not 2-3, and another decent catcher/1b wouldn't be a bad thing in a year or two.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) Yep, the 2005 and 2006 team were World Series caliber teams. This year, it's just not. That's fine though....as many have pointed out, most teams would do anything for two straight 90 win seasons. Admitting that this team just lacks "it" this season doesn't diminish what KW and Ozzie and company achieved the last few years. We've been destroyed by the injury bug this year....and that's after seemingly a 5 year span where we had fewer injuries than anyone (besides Frank). That Ordonez injury in 04 was murder on that season as well, although it probably helped us win a title. It also cost us a couple draft picks.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 05:45 AM) If you really want to get Ichiro, I think you keep Iguchi around, although I would peg our chances at getting Ichiro at about 10-15%, because KW will point to the decreasing attendance and expected lack of season ticket renewals and say that he can't go out and spend money he doesn't have. I think Kenny's smart enough to know that getting Ichiro alone would bring back revenue to nearly pay for the signing in terms of ticket sales and added media exposure. Seattle's seen the same thing for years. The problem is...right now, the Sox look like they're pretty much screwed for a year or two, with a couple major OF holes, a couple rookies being forced into service, a weak bullpen, and a couple of vets about to walk. In other words...if Mr. Ichiro were to look at this team now, he might think that it resembles a lot the 2003 Seattle Mariners; coming off a couple of really good years, but also looking over the cliff at a couple of really down years. And I really doubt Ichiro wants to go to a team he thinks may struggle to remain competitive for his last few good years.