Balta1701

I think I'm agreeing with @southsider2k5(Yes I'm actually tagging him because I'm interested in his answer to this one) but there's one topic I don't see in this thread yet. Do we really think the White Sox will cut payroll dramatically next year? Next year we're out of the Shields disaster and, if he's right, Garcia seems unlikely to be re-upped. Assuming Abreu is brought back and the obvious ones like arbitration for Rodon and Yolmer, we've got only about $40 million committed next offseason even including all the minimum wage guys. They have absolutely cut the total payroll over the last 2 seasons, on paper our payroll for 2018 is $70 million...However we are also still dealing with the huge bonus and penalties for Robert, which was $50 million over 2 seasons, and since we're worse now than in 2016 and we're not giving up draft picks we are also paying another $5+ million in draft costs, so at least for this year it's like the money spent on players was closer to $100 million, and counting Robert's costs during 2017 we probably spent closer to $110 million, while 2016 and 2015 the payroll was even higher still. Next year we will still have high draft spending, but we won't have the excuse of Robert's money at all and we have expiring deals, so on paper we're basically cutting the payroll from close to $100 million to $45 million or so. Attendance dropped again between these 2 years but not nearly by enough to account for that. Obviously we have to go find 2 starting pitchers just to fill out the rotation with warm bodies, but if 2k5 is right and we're not going to go for the 3 year stopgaps elsewhere, we still have $50 million to spend just to get back to the payroll of this year. If we miss on Machado and Harper...what do we do with that money? I don't know the answer to this and so I'm curious. If the answer involves the phrase "Building equity with ownership" I don't think I'm going to be particularly happy.

With the sheer number of pitchers the White Sox traded for in their big deals, if the White Sox need to spend $100 million on a starting pitcher not named Carlos Rodon in the next 2 years I think we will be confidently saying the rebuild has been a disaster. If we can't pull together a starting rotation out of what we have in this organization and we need a top of the rotation starter, we're not going to be competing in the current window, that will mean way too many guys flopped or got hurt.

Seriously, if you were a public figure for a major company and you "liked" a tweet criticizing your superior or their corporate strategy, don't you think someone is going to ask you about that?

Losing Kopech was a big mental blow.

But that is 1 bad call. Everyone out there who has a full season is going to have 10 or so strikeouts on pitches that are just on terrible calls. Moncada isn't unusual in that. The reason why he's at the top of this list is NOT those strikeouts, everyone has them. The fact that he has struck out the most times on pitches out of the zone does not prove that all of those strikeouts happened on pitches 5 inches out of the zone. No one has analyzed the average distance to the zone on those 49 strikeouts, only that they are out of the zone.

I disagree that this is "the umps taking the bat out of his hands" or the stated point that this is something that will turn around on its own. The reason Moncada looks this bad in this number is that pitchers know THIS is an easy way to attack Moncada. They know he's patient enough that if they throw good pitches early in the count, he may not attack them unless they make a mistake. If the pitcher gets ahead in the count, they also know that Moncada will not defend himself if the pitch is close, he will continue looking for a pitch he can drive. Moncada will not foul pitches off with 2 strikes to stay ahead if the pitch is close but unhittable, he will take that pitch. Other players will fight those pitches off or put them in play, Moncada won't. So, if a pitcher gets ahead of Moncada, what do they do? They throw the ball just out of the strike zone a couple times and since Moncada won't defend himself, it's up to the quality of framing and how well the umpire sees it whether or not he strikes out. If they've got an 0-2 or 1-2 count, they can do that a few times and see if Moncada grabs some bench without him ever threatening to do damage. If we replayed this season a hundred times, Moncada would still lead the league in this category. It's not because he's getting bad luck from the umps or that the umps just don't respect him (I guess it's possible there's a little bit of it in there it can't be ruled out completely), this is all about Moncada's approach. This is a major vulnerability for him. Unless there are robot umps adopted, any time he gets behind in the count, he's vulnerable to striking out looking because he won't defend on close pitches. You get ahead of him, you have a catcher that frames the ball acceptably, and you throw a pitch that is close, he'll grab some bench. Until Moncada's approach when behind in the count improves, he will lead the league in this every year.

FWIW, I don't think that reputation is likely the biggest cause here, not nearly compared to Moncada's approach and how it sets pitchers up to go for this type of strikeout.

There are 2 types of players who are disappointing after their first 750-1000 plate appearances. Guys who break out and become successes, and disappointing players. The fact that you can look back in time and find examples of guys who struggled early and then did break out into much better players does provide some hope for both of them. Furthermore, the fact that it can happen suddenly, as with the example you gave, should also provide some hope. However...the fact that you had to go back 13 years to find the last recent example for this franchise should also make one wonder how rare those breakouts are.

This just hurts W-S in their playoff run.

It's literally been a lightswitch surrounding that moment. Right before it, we gave the Yankees and Red Sox a bloody nose and the team looked cocky and full of energy. Now we're getting battered by the Angels and Royals.

Assuming he pitched during spring training, they could keep him at Charlotte for a month on a rehab assignment, and if they did want to keep him down, at that point they'd have to burn a minor league option to do it.

After the Trestman era finished and the Bears fired both him and their GM I think most people in Chicago looked at that roster and said that the amount of talent there was awful. Several of the manes you say there - Howard, Floyd, Fuller, etc., they arrived since the start of the Bears' rebuild.

Even if he's back to feeling normal, we shouldn't forget how long it took him at AAA to find a groove and his control this year. In June he had what, a 3 inning 6 walk performance or something like that? He may be feeling normal but rather than using this offseason to work on improving things, he will instead be spending it doing very little to improve other than watching video and reading. He should be physically back to start 2020, but all of the skill, the practice he did this year, he's going to need far more time to recover all that.

I would have cautiously agreed with you last week. IMO Kopech really, really, really hurts. Losing a top of the rotation guy for 2 years (yes he'll be back in 2020 but he won't be 100%) to my eyes is a 2 year delay. I was starting to get cautiously optimistic about next year's team improving markedly, and then that hit and now I want to hit the reset button again and trade Rodon. So now, I've got 2021 circled. With that Winston Salem team hitting the bigs that year, it's literally either 2021 as the breakthrough year or it never happens because guys flopped or got hurt.

Like it or not, we have to give this front office until at least the end of 2020 to evaluate things. Once we made that choice in 2016 not to fire them, tar them, feather them, and parade them through the streets of the south side as captured villains (which we should have done), it became basically impossible to evaluate how they did on the rebuilding decisions. Even if they did everything right and put together talent that would win 3 straight world series, the team was going to spend a couple years looking bad.

Literally 1 week ago we were coming off strong series against the Yankees and Red Sox and feeling like these kids were somewhat exciting and maybe we did have a shot at this. That seems like so long ago because one big thing changed since then. It seems like the Kopech news didn't just hit us, it sure does seem like it ripped the team's heart out too.

That contract might be ok.

It's not that no one would necessarily want the guy. It's that 2/3 of the teams in the American League simply aren't going to stretch themselves by adding a potential $115 million commitment during the year for anyone. Hell, the Yankees and Dodgers, the teams you might have thought of ohter than the Red Sox, literally could not add him this year because they were wanting to stay beneath the luxury tax. I'm actually interested to hear an answer to this because I can't remember it ever happening. When's the last time that a guy with $100 million on his contract was traded during the season?

Les Moonves will be out at CBS. He will pocket somewhere between $0 and $170 million depending on whether they have an agreement or whether they wind up trying to fire him with cause. I won't ever be paid as much in my lifetime as he might be paid for forcing women to perform oral sex on him.

I don't get this game, but this stat line for Lopez really stands out. 6 IP, 3 BB, 2 H, 10 Ks. Remember how we were talking about how his ERA was dramatically better than his peripherals in part because of too many walks and too few Ks? Even ignoring the shutout part, those Ks really look good.

I do think the weather probably played into it a bit but yeah this was a sloppy first round.

Watson was piling up the points though, if you're doing that you will look past the INTs.

He's saying that Frank Thomas was the only player taking a public stand against PED use and turning that into a statement by the organization against PED use. I believe the first post, that the org is happy to take on players like Cabrera even when they shouldn't, is much more accurate. The public statements by Frank made the organization look good because he was in this organization doing the right thing, but that doesn't mean the organization was doing the right thing.

So the deal you're telling me you'd make is Steele Walker for a guy who would "Give some competition for Adam Angel" and a relief pitcher? It's stronger for the time being because they're in AAA as opposed to just drafted? That's some really iffy arguments to my eyes.

Seriously, ponder the scenario. If JD Martinez was hitting just as well with the White Sox at the trade deadline, we'd have already spent >$15 million on his production this year. We'd then have to trade him to a team capable of absorbing a contract with $115 million on it, who had an open DH or RF spot, who was also willing to take on the risk of the player opting out. How many teams could take on that much money, and are they going to give you anything of value back even though he's having a great year? I would strongly bet the answer to both is no. There would be at most 1-2 teams interested due to the money, possibly as few as 0 since he's limited in the positions he can play, and they would not give you anything of use in return if they did make that move. You'd be spending $15 million, hurting your own draft pick, the White Sox would be on their way to 94 losses instead of 97, and you'd get very little back in return, with the downside risk always there that the guy will get hurt.