Balta1701

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 10:44 PM) WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned. WAR/200 IP, starts/season Kershaw ---------7.02, 31 Sale ------------- 5.49, 29 Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67 Kluber -----------5.19, 30 Price ------------- 5.16, 31 Felix -------------4.49, 32 I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale. Um, yes, he should be counted as a lesser player for missing starts and I find it hard to believe that I'd ever be asked that. Being able to stay on the mound is an important thing for a pitcher. He's not a better pitcher when he's on the DL or having starts skipped. There are several guys who would immediately appear on the list of "as good as Sale or better" if somehow you gave the right to ignore the fact that guys haven't pitched 220 innings. Matt Harvey even counting this as a recovery year put up 5.9 fWAR/200 IP between 2013 and 2015, but anyone would call me out of my bleeping mind for including him as a pitcher who has clearly been better than Sale over the last 3 years since he kinda missed the whole 2014 season. Jose Fernandez is right there with Sale at 5.44, but he's pitched only 288 innings so no one on Earth would include him. I could probably find others but I have to go teach.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) Sale doesn't need to make nearly as big of a jump as Johnson did because his stats are already markedly better, especially in the walks department, as Sale's K:BB is simply ridiculous, whereas Johnson struggled and walked many batters- even after he turned 29 (in comparison to Sale). Who are these 5 comparable pitchers/several better pitchers? IMO, there's Kershaw, and that's it. I'm not just talking about one successful season, I mean 3+ in a row. We made a big deal about Quintana being top 10 in fWAR. Just to use the easy comparison, Sale is 4th over the last 3 years, Scherzer and Price are also ahead of him, Kluber and Felix are pretty close, and over that time he's been 8th, 8th, and 5th out of pitchers in baseball (hence, he's a top 15 player, but top 5?) That's pretty darn good. But the same f***ing guy has been "1, 1, and 1". That's where you can use the phrase once in a lifetime and I'll buy it. Do you think Max Scherzer is a "once in a lifetime" pitcher? I don't. Because he's solidly outpitched Sale the last 3 years in those #s. And hell, if he's once in a lifetime, the Tigers have had 2 lifetimes since 2006.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:53 PM) Just wondering, do you consider Randy Johnson a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher? Do you expect Chris Sale to take the kind of jump at age 29 that Randy Johnson did? Because that would make him a once in a lifetime pitcher. Right now there's ~5 comparable pitchers in baseball and several better.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:43 PM) Our core sure is better than you make it sound. You're only using fWAR to evaluate them. Look at it this way- we have a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher who is a top-5 player in baseball, another top-15 starting pitcher in baseball, and one of the most dynamic, consistent hitters in baseball. Rodon could very well join this list after next season, too. Um, no?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 06:56 PM) Ok so? You can still win with all those guys. Last year the Giants had one pitcher with a WAR above 3. That was Madison Bumgarner at 3.9 and not another pitcher with a WAR above 2. Hudson and Peavy finished with a 1.9 WAR. This year, the Sox had 2 pitchers with a WAR above 4 (Sale 6.2, Quintana 4.8) and 2 more pitchers with WARs above 2 (Shark 2.7, Rodon 2.1 in 23 starts). Hitting wise the Sox managed 2 players with a WAR of 3 or above in Abreu or Eaton. Giants had 4 hitters with WARs above 3 in Posey, Crawford, Pence, and Sandoval. You add a piece or 2 on offense to this core, and they definitely can make some noise next year. Factor in possibly an outlier year from Melky and this offense could do enough with the pitching staff that we have. Of course you "Can" win with these guys. That's not what people are saying. People keep saying "we can't afford to waste this chance with this core!!" as though it's some incredible, once in a lifetime event. We have a core that is within error of "what you'd have if you distributed the top 120 players randomly amongst 30 teams" and yet "We can't afford to wait we have to win with this core right now" keeps coming out. This isn't bad. You can win with it. But it's not some "once in a lifetime, unbelievable, never will see again" set of players. If you don't win the world series with this group...you're just like 10-20 other teams in the big leagues that have comparable cores. Well, at least it wouldn't be for a decent franchise.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 05:45 PM) He's getting older, and his core of Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Eaton aren't getting any younger. Couldn't resist this one. The White Sox have 1 player in the top 30 in MLB in fWAR, 2 players in the top 60, 3 players in the top 90, and 4 players in the top 120 assuming Samardzija departs. That's some unbelievable core. You'd never guess that a team could have players that good in their core just by chance. Clearly that's something that we have to take advantage of while we have it.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 09:48 PM) He has to win a job, but he's the favorite to coming in. How did Eaton rank defensively this season? Very poor. However he was quite good in 2014. Basically, as of now I can't tell which year to believe he will be overall. It's entirely possible he could be a stronger defender in 2016 than he was in 2015, we've seen that before. We basically need to give him more time out there to see if he can be a solid defender.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 07:12 PM) I'm not saying he will be a 2 WAR player, but right now it seems like he has a better shot than Avi does. All I'm saying back is...please for God's sake let's not pencil in Trayce and then say "now we're a competitive roster because he's guaranteed to repeat what he did this year after his callup". Play him and see what happens? Sure. Invest a huge amount in 3b and then act totally surprised that Trayce hits sub-.200 next year? Totally a White Sox move.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 07:08 PM) Micah isn't necessarily a 2B, he has the tools to be converted to something else. No he doesn't. He's had arm and leg problems already. You're going to move him to a position where he has to run more or to a position where he has to throw more? If you're converting him to something else it seems like its a DH.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 07:07 PM) Batting Average is overrated anyway, if he gets a bunch of extra-base hits and manages a decent walk rate I don't care if he hits .230. his walk rate in the big leagues this year was twice his walk rate at Charlotte.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) Gerritt Cole is pretty damn awesome too(not Arrieta awesome but damn good), to me this is a complete 50/50 toss up. If this was in Chicago I'd say the Cubs should be the favorite, but the Cubs on the road and Cole with much extra rest makes this at least a tossup.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 06:40 PM) Who says no? A. Garcia, Fulmer, M. Johnson, Montas, Beck, and Montas for Arenado and Jairo Diaz The person you commissioned to clone Montas has announced that you cannot afford their cloning service. They've said no.

And the Cubs go on the road to face a 98 win team with a 19 game winner in the play-in game on Wednesday.

Well at least they're not going 0-16.

Totally correct song choice.

MARK!

Seriously, how in the hell...?

Pinned until it is proven wrong. Until then, I'm in salute mode.

Mark!

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 08:58 PM) Not sure if this has been discussed but I heard today from a friend of mine who works for the Sox and he said Hahn is going to make a big play for Todd Frazier Quintana for Frazier seems so much like a kind of move I'd make sarcastic, insulting jokes about them being dumb enough to do that somehow I think it'll really happen. That'll be the moment I walk into a thread, say "I'm out", and then that'll be it for me with this franchise for a while. We'll probably throw in Danish to make it happen.