Hideaway Lights

is this the right time to do this????

answers: 1) Yankees, A's, Red Sox 2) Yankees, A's, Red Sox, White Sox, Twins, Angels, Mariners 3) Tigers and Mariners 4) Red Sox 5) Tigers, Royals, Devil Rays and Orioles

FYI this is AL only...sorry if I didn't make that clear in the initial post.

no cheating! 5 questions about the 2000's era of AL baseball 1) The White Sox have the 4th highest cumulative win total since 2000 at 617. Can you name the top three in order? 2) Seven teams have over 600 victories. Can you name all seven? 3) Two teams have an over 50 game disparity between their lowest win total and highest win total. Name them. 4) What team has the lowest variance in terms of disparity between lowest and highest win total at 13 games? 5) Which 4 teams have won less than 500 games in the 7 seasons dating back to 2000? Answers later

guys, Williams inherited a 95 win team. That's why he's so low on the list. It don't make it right, but that's what it is.

someone should tell this guy that the Sox haven't lost 90 games in almost 20 years, and haven't had a losing record since the 90s. That said, I still think 3rd place and about 85 wins seems right.

There is no question Santo should be a hall of famer And I f***ing hate Ron Santo

hell no he wouldn't Reinsdorf does not let his GMs sign pitchers to long term deals Zambrano will want more than 4-5 years, which I believe is the most years the White Sox would ever offer a pitcher guys, some team is going to offer Zambrano six years if he ends up FA dude is still way young, no?

I'm a little confused as to why a lot of people are questioning other people's predictions they are predictions most will be wrong

84-78, 3rd place in the central, behind Cleveland and Detroit. The lack of a fifth starter and a major league leadoff hitter bite the sox in the ass this year.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) Anyone that wants to dump KW or thinks he should be fired is a first class moron. We just one year out from the WS parade, so get a clue. The only thing I think is that he should keep a lot of this behind closed doors, that is all. Players and their agents will leak this type of info. But when its coming from KWs mouth is when I have a problem. He is an executive and should handle himself as such. The whitesox have had a long history of not going into long term deals with pitchers. So them keeping with their long acting policy, I dont think it will work in the long term, but hey at least they are consistent. However they have paid top dollar at times, or at least within what is considered a normal contract for players for a while also. We haven't heard a thing about Dye, who knows what is going on there. We have 2 choices here with the state of our farm system. We either complement our talent with some FA stock to keep things going. Or we trade some of our top talent for top prospects. With the state of our farm system, we cannot just fall back and rely on what we have from a positional standpoint. Our pitching in the farm, is a lot better now than a lot of people give it credit for. What other moves has Cashman made this offseason when has cashman not gone out and traded for/gotten an FA that the fans wanted? It didnt' always work out but to compare cashman to williams is ludicrous. Williams is already setting us up for a huge payroll slash in 08 and I will just about vomit if the Sox do that.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Pedro Martinez is also one of the most dominant starting pitchers of all time and possibly the most dominant during his prime. He put together a 2 year stretch that is unparallelled in today's game ('99-'00) with 2000 being quite possibly the single most dominant season by a pitcher in baseball history. 1.74 ERA, 0.73 WHIP, 284 SO to only 32 BB in 217 IP and most impressive of all he posted a 285 ERA+ which the highest (best) ever recorded by a pitcher in the history of the game. You're putting WAY too much stock in a single stat especially one as unrepresentative of a player's ability as wins. Mark Buehlre even in the same paragraph as Pedro Martinez is utterly blasphemes. My point was that a pitcher who was considered one of the most dominant in the game has only 197 wins, so obviously the criteria for wins has changed. I wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two directly. Buehrle has a pretty damn good ERA for pitching in the AL too though.

here's an interesting stat though Pedro Martinez seems to be one of those "sure HOFers" that is tauted as being a lock whenever he name comes up...he only has 197 wins! only 36 active pitchers (as of 2005) have more than 103 career wins! And some of those guys are ancient (clemens, johnson, maddux, glavine), and some are relievers now (fassero, gordon...is fassero even still in the league)? what will be the new benchmark for wins for a hall of famer? I don't think anyone will ever even get 250 again. I think we need to look at 200 with the way the game has changed I think Buehrle can get to 200.

the reason why I set up the thread this way is because I'm interested if beyond Thomas, there are going to be any White Sox HOFers we can otherwise expect over the next 20 years, and it seems like there probably isn't.

yeah, I meant just current sox who have always been with the team... QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 11:55 AM) However, which current White Sox (that have spent most of their career with the team) do you think will eventually be hall of famers? also, why wouldn't buehrle be considered? He'll probably get 200 wins in his career, which should be the benchmark for current pitchers. That's 14 years of winning 15+ games a year. not many pitchers nowadays do that.

There was some doubt in 2003-4, but I think we all now know Thomas is probably a shoe-in to go in as a White Sox whenever he finally gets the call 5 years after he calls it a career. However, which current White Sox (that have spent most of their career with the team) do you think will eventually be hall of famers? I think Buehrle and Konerko are the most obvious choices, but who else? Could Konerko necessarily even make it with 500 homers and a .280 career average?

witesoxfan, making the analogy that I'm not being fair with Vazquez in light of my stance on McCarthy doesn't make any sense. For one thing, Vazquez is a veteran pitcher, not a second year player with less than 150 innings logged at the big league level. For another thing, Vazquez did not change roles, he changed leagues. For another thing, Vazquez had pitched in the American League before, whereas, McCarthy had never really pitched in a relief role in the majors. Regarding the Vazquez vs. Garcia debate. I look at Garcia and see a player who clearly doesn't have the stuff he once had, but can overcome physical limitations because he is a mentally tough player. I look at Vazquez and see a player who has all the talent in the world but can't do a damn thing with it consistently because he is not a mentally tough player. Obviously, I'll ALWAYS take the former, especially if I need to rely on him for big playoff games.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 08:48 AM) Thats why this debate is going no where. Most of us feel that the Sox will be able to compete this year, and in future years. You dont. Pretty much end of story. Yes, well most fans of a team generally think their team can compete any year. They will be in the race, surely, but as it stands now, with no leadoff hitter and three dead spots in the lineup card, with a shaky 4th and totally unknown 5th starter position I see this team as significantly worse than last year's team in every area except the bullpen.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 10:00 AM) So you don't see that he's got a 4.35 career ERA? Or that he's pitched 200+ innings for 7 straight years, and had an ERA during those years in the low 4's? Again, he's no ace, but evidence is clear that he can contribute for a full season. Evaluating ERA for a career spanning both leagues might just be a little misleading, especially when there are so many differences (quality of teams, DH, style of play).

QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 08:34 AM) I completely agree with this. Indians pitching staff is gonna be hard to beat. On a show with the fantasy 411 on MLB.com indians GM Mark Shaprio (sp? i duno his name) stated that Cliff Lee could be a big time sleeper canidate, and im on his train. Lee and J. Sowers could be v. good this year. And I also agree that this may be our last year. I give the Indians the edge, but the Indians, Tigers, and White sox could all swap positions, its gonna be a great year. i also concur

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 09:26 AM) I don't think he's a CY candidate or anything, but I think he's able to have a year much like his second half last year. Mid-4 ERA, good peripherals, and getting past the 5th inning more often than not. But to say he can't pitch in the AL is laughable. And I think we will in fact compete for a playoff spot this year, as long as we don't have serious injury problems. I don't see what evidence there is that this headcase can keep it together for an entire season.

A guy who cannot pitch in the AL is our fourth starter, and we have unproven guys competing for a fifth starter. In that division, I don't see how anyone could think a team chock full of question marks not only at SP but at at least three (maybe more with injuries) lineup slots can do anything realistically but compete for second or third. Regarding Garcia, I would've been a lot more comfortable with Garcia than Vazquez as a 4th starter. It you're asking me if I'd rather have Garcia, who has the better mental makeup but worse physical makeup or Vazquez, who has everything physically but is a headcase, I will take Garcia every time. Gavin Floyd has been rocked at every point in his major league career thus far. Garcia is a World Champion who has pitched complete games deep in the playoffs. And yet we essentially traded them for each other? Is that a joke? As for McCarthy, I would have rather gone in with McCarthy as a starter, like everyone else wanted him to be, than the role he was extremely uncomfortable in last year. If you think that any starter can become a reliever and vice versa without there being at least an adjustment period, you're high. Also, there are no guarantees they ever even adjust. Most pitchers cannot do both well. What was everyone's opinion of McCarthy before he got traded? Seems like everyone was saying "can't wait to see BMac starting...like he always should have been." Now that he's been traded, it's like "so long, bum". I just don't see why very many folks on this board are suddenly KW apologists for every single move he makes. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 07:58 AM) GM's don't win pennants, the players and coaches (mostly the players) do. GM's have a different job - they keep the club competitive with the right talent. The GM sets the table, and its up to the guys on the field to execute. KW, this offseason, set the table so that we'd be competitive for the next 3 or 4 years. That means we get 3 or 4 good shots at a title. That is a LOT better than 1 shot. The club will not be in a position to compete for a division title this year, IMHO.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 12, 2007 -> 01:44 AM) So you were/are ok with the Sox being a 85-95 loss team in 2008-2010? Absolutely. If you told me I would win another pennant or world series in 2007, I would've taken a 120 loss season in 2008. I would rather have won two world titles as the Marlins an than won one as the White Sox, which is all we're likely going to have for right now. Sustaining 80+ win seasons is not good enough. The team is good enough to win 83-87 in 2007 (not nearly good enough to win the toughest division in baseball), and MAY be good enough to win 83-87 in 2008, but 2008 is contigent on a s***load of things.

I would have kept McCarthy and Garcia and kept the entire team intact for one more run in 2007, and traded Vazquez for anything I could get from him in the NL. What they got for Garcia is pretty much the laughingstock of this offseason, and what they got for McCarthy is fine but the reasons why they traded him (if they intended on contending in 2007) are totally baffling.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Feb 8, 2007 -> 09:47 AM) Care to explain why? Sorry, I mean that I don't think Dye is going to have another great season like he did in 06, because that was pretty far off his career numbers. Sure, there's a chance he's just putting it all together late in his career, but it's more likely that there's been some improvement and some aspect of having a career year. Also, you have to factor in that he's been injury prone in the past and we've gotten essentially two injury-free seasons out of him.