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Look, no matter what you say, there is no way in hell that the 2005 team wins the World Series without Ozzie Guillen. I don't care what kind of spin you want to put on this. >>> Back to the point. Ozzie Guillen's vision of rebuilding the White Sox was the reason the team was even put in a position to win the division last year. It was Ozzie Guillen who demanded that Kenny reconstruct the roster around what he wanted - with more speed at the top of the lineup. Sure, KW went along with it, and made the moves, but as I understand it, the impetus was from Ozzie. And even though Podsednik basically sucks now, he was the catalyst of last year's lineup and a true leadoff hitter is the reason why we were able to succeed with players like Carl Everett and a one-legged Frank Thomas DHing. It was that style of play that won. Not Carlos Lee and a bunch of right handed beefcakes taking batting practice. Love him or hate him now, Ozzie Guillen is the reason why we got Freddy Garcia to re-sign in Chicago. Without Freddy, we don't win the series last year. It was under Ozzie Guillen's managing that Garland was able to finally live up to his potential, something that Jerry Manuel was never able to have faith in. It was Ozzie Guillen who kept the team's motivation up. Whatever that means, you cannot deny that the team last year NEVER quit. There are several more reasons why Guillen was invaluable. Suddenly now, he's the worst manager to ever don a uniform and people are calling for his head. Yes, he has made some atrocious decisions this year. But to discount his impact last season is ludicrous. Absurdly ludicrous. He may not last even one more season in Chicago, but I will never, ever for a second believe anything else but that Ozzie Guillen was one of the most important reasons the White Sox ever won the World Series. Everything had to go right for us to pull that off. And that includes the manager being the manager. It honestly sickens me to read some of these posts.

People are really overreacting to this article Anderson has had a better second half, but even if he is hitting .278 for the second half, that's still not something we should have to live with automatically, especially considering his second half OPS is .749, which is ATROCIOUS for an outfielder. He is also not great at stealing bases. I can't even count the number of times he has been sent with two outs and podsednik up to get a RISP and he's been thrown out by a mile. He's under .500 in terms of SB/SBA. I think Ozzie's point is that he's a mediocre hitter, a mediocre slugger and a mediocre basestealer, and even though he's improved in the second half he cannot rest on those laurels and expect a job to be handed to him next season. Anderson has a lot of work ahead of him, and I think that was the point. Is he a great defender? Sure. His overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired. He is still taking bad swings at balls, and he is still not getting good jumps on SB attempts. If I were Ozzie, and I had caught wind that Anderson was considering skipping out of winter ball, I would send the same message. Where are the sources that indicate Anderson has said all along that he was going to winter ball despite what Ozzie thinks?

we have a chance to sweep the devil rays and people are still finding ways to b**** about it if we do sweep, I don't care how it got done and who had to do what or when for us to do it. I'm going to give a slap on their collective sox fanny and say "great job boys"

If Javier sees any part of the mound in the 7th inning I'm not responsible for what happens to Ozzie Guillen on the way home from the park

YES!

shades of early 2005 contreras here

how close was that play?

he's going to the national league, because of his pitching record in that league and the fact that several teams will get into a bidding war for him even if it was somehow realistic, no way would Kenny bring that guy back to this organization

20-12

mods, delete board plz k thx

I've tried every local number. I've tried Columbus. Indianapolis. Detroit. Cincinnati. Kansas City. Fargo, ND. Sacramento. Albuquerque. All of them are busy. It looks like the phone is totally shut down.

oh wait, this is an afternoon game. I probably can make it after all.

QUOTE(Antonio Osuna @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 01:46 PM) I think this is another 2000-type season where we have to win it this year; there's just too much magic that won't be back for 2006. People playing way over their heads, way over their career numbers, that sort of stuff. This team won't repeat. That's why I am so willing in trade threads to sell off the entire farm for this year. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, not just for me, not just for all of us, but for Uncle Jerry too. He's getting up there in age; come on, I'm sure he wants a ring. Who's playing over their heads besides Garland, necessarily? It seems to me that a bunch of the hitters are having the types of seasons that they should be having. I had Iguchi pegged at right where he's at. Podz is having a great season, but his power numbers are way below where they should be and he's hitting 25 points below his career high. Kong and Frank are supplying plenty of power but no average. Crede is having another Credelicious year at .240/20hr. Uribe is having a mediocre season offensively. Rowand is right there where he should be. On the pitching side, Buehrle is having the season you'd expect him to have. Garcia is having about the season you'd expect him to have. Maybe overperfoming a little, but this is not exactly out of bounds with what he has done. I think this team is very well primed for a 2006 run, if not a 2007 run. EDIT: I guess Dye is hitting lights out and way over his head

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 09:51 AM) Why is everybody pickin on Jose? Damn. It was less then a month ago that the guy had an era of 3.13. He went into a little funk. Does that surprise anybody? He's our 4th if not 5th best starter. He's been cheated out of atleast 3 wins earlier this season. Honestly, I've been very happy with Jose to this point. If he can keep his era around 4 and give us a chance to win most of the time, I'm more than happy. The guy we need to worry about is Hernandez. The ERA does not tell the story. The WHIP does. I was at a game earlier this year, April 18th vs. the Twins. Contreras loaded the bases something like 3 times in the first 4 innings. It was ludicrous. He ended up getting 2 double plays to get out of it. I swear, on EVERY SINGLE BATTER he would go 0-2, and then 3-2. A couple of those he walked the batter on four straight balls. It was one of the most aggravating outings I've ever watched. Honestly, we should have been down something like 10-1 after three. Somehow, he only allowed a couple to score. Did we win the game? sure. Contreras' line? Only 2 earned through 4 2/3rds. Not bad...translates to an game ERA of about 3.86. But 6 hits and 4 walks through 4 and 2/3rds is flat out ATROCIOUS. It's a WHIP of over 2! I know people b**** about his lack of run support, but Contreras' is also always getting himself into these situations by walking way too many guys. 48 walks in 101 innings pitched is just awful. The mindboggling thing is that his hits allowed per inning is actually stellar....only 86 in 101 innings pitched. His total WHIP is 1.32...not horrible, but certainly below average.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 09:59 AM) magician??? musician...I think I'm actually playing in all three bands that night too so I can't blow it off

MJ and H do a better show, but Silvy and Carmen are on their way.

Dammit I'm playing a show that night

On topic, I think Contreras simply CANNOT be relied on for anything long term. I would be surprised if he compiles 10 wins this season. He's too inconsistent and generally mediocre. His pitch count is always high, and he always seems to be either in trouble or on the edge of trouble. I am hoping we save Hernandez until August and then start handling him with kid gloves. The fact of the matter is that unless Garland somehow falls off completely, Contreras really won't figure into the postseason much anyway. He has too little control to come out of the pen except in long relief. In a five game series it would go Buehrle/Garland/Garcia/Buehrle/Garland and in a seven game it would Buehrle/Garland/Garcia/Hernandez/Buehrle/Garland/Garcia I agree with you that would probably don't need to deal for a starter, but not because Count is pitching necessarily well. I think our rotation is set for the postseason, and with a 10.5 game lead and the first two WC teams within our division, we probably can coast into the postseason.

Hey Rowand44, if you didn't have Frank labeled as "the power" and Pods labeled as "the speed" in your signature picture, I honestly would have no idea which was which

CORPSEBALL

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 6, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) Let's start up a thread in SLAP some day. In the meantime, let's get back on task. agreed.

AddisonSt - as a record label owner, producer and recording artist myself, I would take you to task for your views on music piracy but I don't want to derail this thread.

Position Players C-Pierzynski A - definitely our MVP. Handles the pitching staff well. Hits well. Seems like a great clubhouse guy. I'm not sure how much more he could be doing. C-Widger B - based on expectations, he's performing at an above average clip, but he still has a lot to work on behind the plate, in the box, and on the basepaths. 1B-Konerko B- - in terms of homers, sure he's doing his job. But where's the doubles, Paulie? And for that matter, where's the friggin' average, Paulie? For a guy with almost 20 jacks, a .473 slugging seems low. Check that, it IS low. His walks are up though, and that's essential on a team which doesn't have a ton of patience at the plate other than Frank. On the basepaths this guy is nothing but a liability though, and that's nowhere more evident than in his GIDPs. I expect a lot more than just jacks from my first baseman. Hopefully he'll have one of those streaky .300 halves and get the average up to about .270 with 40/100. 2B-Iguchi B- - I think in the beginning of the year, he was a real asset. Has tapered off quite a bit though. Great defense....but needs significantly more patience at the plate, and has below average power, slightly above average speed and a pretty damn average average. He hit just .244 in June and is hitting .188 thus far in July. Seems like this guy is slumping badly and maybe hitting the wall at the major leagues a little bit. I'm worried about him. 2B-Harris C+ - Hasn't really been given a lot of tick, so I'm not sure his numbers are entirely representative of what he can do. SS-Uribe C+ - This guy has plenty of defensive positives, but plenty of offensive negatives. Never seen a pitch he didn't like, and so his atrocious .248 average doesn't really creep up with OBP around .280. Doesn't have the power he had last year, seemingly. Hopefully he can bounce back from injury. 3B-Crede C+ - Flat out, this guy is turning into a disappointment. I keep hoping he can get up to .260, but my patience is running out pretty quickly. I'm ready to make a move at this position. OF-Rowand B- - Doing basically what I expected him to do. I'm confident that he will have a stronger second half. OF-Podsednik B+ - Yes, he's been essential at setting the table, but his lack of power and the fact he probably still doesn't walk enough for a leadoff guy bother me. Still, the 41 steals are friggin' awesome. OF-Dye B+ - Started out slow as hell, but man, what a pickup. The average could be a little better, but it's hard to argue anything with all that pop. OF/DH-Everett B - Was one of three MVPs in April. Has slowed since, but I'll take what we're getting from him. OF-Perez D - There's really no reason for this guy to be in the majors, although he did hit the game winning single at that Angels game I was at.... UTL-Ozuna B- - Been mostly a pleasant surprise. Still raw, still green, but I like his future as a White Sox. DH-Thomas B+ - The big man has been pretty clutch and is showing an awful lot of heart. Still, he needs to get that average up to where it needs to be...in the 270s. Rotation SP-Buehrle A - Pitching like Buehrle. Getting the wins and quality starts. Becoming possibly my fave White Sox of all time. SP-Garcia B+ - Record-wise and ERA-wise he's doing just fine. He needs to work on the "Garcia inning," but he seems to be adept at working around it anyway. SP-Contreras D+ - I hated the trade when it happened. I cringe whenever he takes the mound. He's gotten lucky in several situations, which makes up for the lack of run support he's received. I'm not really comfortable with him pitching down the stretch or in the playoffs. I just don't think he has what it takes to be a major leaguer. Loaiza certainly did. SP-Hernandez B+ - You can't really blame him for his injuries, and I'd say that 7-2 is a lot more than I expected from him. SP-Garland A - Just amazing. Outside chance at 25 wins? Unthinkable before the season started. I would've told you outside chance at 17 wins. Bullpen RP-Politte A+ - This guy could not be better. How he is not a All-Star is incomprehensible. RP-Vizcaino C- - Not a major leaguer. Needs to go. I don't get what Ozzie sees in this guy but he blows. RP-Takatsu C - I want to root for this guy. He's pitched much better lately. Hopefully he can totally right the ship. I actually think he's close. RP-Hermanson A- - The minus is because he has had some gaffes. Otherwise, he's been pretty stellar. LP-Marte C - You never know what to expect from this guy, and it's getting old. LP-Cotts A- - He will spell Marte in the second half if Ozzie has any sense. He started slow, but man he's been a savior in the last few weeks.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 10:42 PM) He's hitting .246 now. I have no problem with him hitting in the 3 slot. Pitchers are afraid of him. If they dont crap their pants and throw him a meatball on accident he's still lible to reach out and nail one that other hitters couldn't touch. Either that or they'll walk him for not wanting to deal with him in the first place. Frank is playing like he thinks it's 2000 or 1993/1994 again and I'm loving every second of it. I think you mean he's hitting home runs like it's 1993/1994/2000 again, because he sure as hell ain't hitting a lot besides it.

A DOUBLE?!?!?!??!!?!?