Hideaway Lights

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) some overused pic boarding 101 can be found here: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35839

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) Are you serious..?? Thomas had 646 plate appearances in 2003. Rowand had 517 plate appearances in 2004. In other words, adjust Rowand to Thomas's plate appearances and you have 30 HR, 48 2B, 86 RBI and 118 R in 2004. Yeah, I think I might just take that with a .310 average over 2003 Thomas, who had just a .267 average with 35 doubles and 42 home runs, with 105 RBI and just 87 runs. Yes, Thomas walks more. Even so, he only has 29 points in OBP on Rowand. OPS isn't that far off either.

Also, last year was a coming out year for Rowand in my opinion....I think he's capable of doing that again. He's certainly showing that a ~.300 average and 38 doubles isn't unrealistic...

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:45 PM) You DO know that last year was a career year for A-row and Frank was still on pace to hit about the same amount of doubles. Even so, Frank is still a better 3 hole hitter. Whoever taught you the fine points of who should hit where taught you wrong. Im sorry to insult you, but its true. So in other words, you're keeping Frank at 3 even if he hits .250 there. Okay.

QUOTE(zach61 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:45 PM) And Frank had 8 yrs of much better numbers than Rowand. The numbers right now show that Frank is the better number 3 hitter and until that changes, why move a lighter hitter based on what you think he might do? Like I said before, Ozzie will do what he thinks is best for the team to win and has proven that by his actions already. So this thread is pointless until Frank is slumping and not producing in the 3rd spot. Right now his numbers are better than Rowands, so there is no reason to change it. How many of those years are after 2000? Thomas 2003 or Rowand 2004 (both of their last complete seasons)...who had the better year?

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) This whole debate is pretty silly. Call me when we lose due to Frank hitting 3rd. Very well, post your phone number. Thanks.

QUOTE(zach61 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:36 PM) When Rowand's numbers are better than whoever is batting 3rd, then it's his spot. Until then, Rowand is only batting about .280 to Frank's .260. And according to you, Rowand is on the low end for OBP at .339 while Frank is at .357. Frank has a SLG of .771 while Rowan is only at .414. So again, why put the .771 in the 5th spot and move the .414 to the 3rd spot? I think you're crazy if you think a) Thomas will keep slugging .771 all year b ) Rowand will only slug .414 all year Clearly, one is in a hot power streak and one is in a cold one. Besides, Slugging disparities are all about high variance anyway. Rowand had 24 jacks last year and 38 doubles. In my opinion, neither were serious flukes. He'll probably only hit 16-20 hr this year because of a cold power streak, but I think he's on pace for about the same number of doubles. I'd be surprised if he doesn't hit 55+ XBH. I hear what you are saying, but I guess I'm wondering how long Ozzie would keep Thomas at 3 if he goes into any kind of slump and ends up around .250.

Okay, so all you guys that think Thomas' average is going to come up....what about Rowand's power numbers? He had 60 extra base hits last year. Not entirely bad. This year he's been in a bit of a power slump, but he has the tools to be the type of complete player to hit from the three hole. He definitely showed that last year. Rowand's prime is also probably still ahead of him, whereas Thomas's is way in the rear view mirror....

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:24 PM) I'd say it's pretty good for a guy who's fairly recently come back to the team and you're not a Thomas apologist you say? uh.... anyway, I like Frank. I just always understood that your best hitter for average was your number 3 hitter.....Frank is no longer that guy. Sure, he's still getting a lot of walks, but if he hits, say .251 with an OBP of around .330 (the low end of the spectrum IMO, the high end I quoted earlier) is that appropriate for a number 3 hitter? btw, Rowand is a career .288 hitter, not .270.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) IMO, the reason Frank would NOT want to move right now is because he is indeed getting on base and hitting well, so you don't mess with a good thing and I would say that in Frank's shoes. Anyway, this whole thread is crap (no offense, Lights). Like some have said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So tootles. .263 is hitting well?

Steff and Kap are making my head hurt.

I'm honestly not stirring the pot. I just think Frank is turning into a different type of hitter at this stage of his career. He's not the .300 hitter he used to be. He will probably hit .270 at best this season, and with a ton of walks might have an oba of around .360 or so. Not great numbers by any stretch.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 03:09 PM) Hideaway Lights, I'm really sorry to be rude, but I can't believe you would suggest Frank to bat 5th. *gasp* I can't believe that a guy with the username The Big Hurt would dispute my suggestion!

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:43 PM) Wait... Konerko hits lots of HRs right? DO you want lots of people on in front of him, or fewer people on. Franks career OBP is around 400 Arron's is around 340... It's not even a question. Frank. Why are we focusing on Frank's/Aaron's career OBP when we should be focusing on what he/they can do NOW.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:27 PM) HE......HELPS........PK........IN.........THE.......LINEUP. Thank you. HE....CAN.....BAT......FOURTH......AND.....KONERKO.....CAN.....BAT.....FIFTH Thank you.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:26 PM) If it is a singles hitter that you want, do not look in the 3 hole, this is an extra base hitter category, who can protect the other people in the lineup and get on base. Thats what he does. I think Thomas does a fine job getting on base, but I think I want a better overall hitter in that three slot than 2005 Thomas. That's all I'm saying.

Here's the way I see it....yes, Frank has hit some key homers and drawn some key walks. Yes, he has the best OBP of all time. Here's the deal though. There are three possibilities for Thomas at the plate 90% fo the time....out, walk or homer. He is not the singles and OB hitter he used to be. I expect he will be at 265-270 with 30-35 jacks and probably 70 walks. That is a 4 or 5 hitter, not a three hitter.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:22 PM) Once more, insert 1-liner to end thread: 49-22. PERIOD. I can see you put some thought into this thread.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) Why even test it? Frank is killing the ball and drawing walks. He isn't hurting the team in the 3 spot. Why risk a tempertantrum and the clubhouse meltdown for a minimal gain right now? If Frank wasn't hitting this might be a consideration, right now it is just kicking a sleeping dog in the nuts. Okay, good point, but it seems like Frank is really being accommodated in a way that I thought Ozzie wouldn't necessary. With everyone else, they are plugged in wherever they need to be on that day. If Frank is even remotely healthy, he's called up early (after nearly insisting) and then plugged into the three hole as a dh on a daily basis.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:15 PM) So you disrupt your moody superstar who has complained in the past about being moved out of the #3 hole, just to beat Kansas City, who you have beaten 8 straight times anyway? Why risk it? It ain't broke, don't fix it, especially when dealing with Frank. So let's get to the heart of this post then: Thomas is still filling out part of the lineup card, not Ozzie.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) Aaron has hit his best in the 3rd spot and is our best hitter with runners in scoring position. Big Hurt would bat 4th, but Konerko needs his protection so it all makes sense. This isn't a move that's discipling Thomas, but more like helping Rowand and Konerko. EXACTLY.

Think critically, folks. I realize it's tough to do when we're all high-fiving one another and patting ourselves on the back as fans.

When has Thomas NOT batted third this season? Why is he batting third? The Dodgers, Indians, and Royals are definitively NOT playoff teams and the Padres are only because they play in a bad division.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 22, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) We are winning. I don't care if Frank bats lead-off, a Win is a Win! This is the kind of thinking that will bite you in the ass when the strategy totally backfires in a more important game...say, for example, the playoffs and say, for example, against a better team than the AAAA Royals.

In my opinion, having Thomas bat third makes no sense whatsoever. I know his OBA is always really good, but until he can get his average consistently above .270 (with more than 50 abs) he needs to hit fifth, or at the highest, fourth.