jerseysox

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:43 PM) Pitching w/o the lead and holding the opposition > Pitching with a 1-4 run lead and getting 3 outs. jesus. pitching without the lead is more important than pitching with a one-run lead in the ninth? come on man. stick to the stats argument. and you don't get saves for coming into a game with a four-run lead.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:39 PM) Hold the f*** on. How can I not follow? At least I back my s*** up. All you got to say is that he is not a closer yadda yadda yadda. It's funny how sometimes the older person needs to grow up. Man... well, your argument was "I quit" another good argument i got before was "WICKMAN?!?!?! WICKMAN?!?!?! WICKMAN?!?!?!" sorry guys. your arguments got me.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Statistically information backs up Politte for All-star. Nothing but your opinion backs up your Klum fantasy he leads the al in saves. he has an era of 2.80. he's 21 of 24 in save opps. he pitches much more meaningful innings than politte. sorry if i failed to mention that.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:37 PM) You're unreal. All you have to backup your argument is that Wickman closes games and since you have nothing at all to back it up you stoop to how old people are. Well guess what a bunch of 17 year olds just out argued you with ease, so what does that say about you? yep, all he does is close games. that's not important. pitching well in the 7th and 8th -- now that's what really counts. you got me. a fantastic argument.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:36 PM) :headshake I quit. lol thank god. you're 15. no wonder you can't follow. pack up your desk and get out!

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) NO NO NO He doesn't close because he doesn't have the mentality, why is that hard to understand? holy crap. so let's reward the guy who's too scared to close games by making him an all-star. seriously, i don't know what else to say.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:32 PM) So just because he is not a closer, he is not deserved. Politte > Wickman. PERIOD. Just because he has saves, he is better??? NO. Besides, why put him at closer when you have someone else doing a more than ample job in Hermy??? my point is, when shingo was crapping the bed, and politte was so awesome, why didn't we turn to him to close full-time?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:31 PM) You said it yourself. Cliff Politte not Heidi Klum....you lose! huh? let me speak slowly you think cliff politte SHOULD be an all-star i think heidi klum SHOULD have sex with me cliff pollite WON'T be an all-star heidi klum WON'T have sex with me i'm sorry if i threw anyone off there with that.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:29 PM) That really is two different arguments. His stats say otherwise, his stats say he is one of the best pitchers in the leauge. Why if Cliff had saves, but not the same ERA would be considered an all star. I dont get it. if he was as good as you claim he is, he would be closing games. it's so hard debating things with people who are 17 and would rather let someone f*** their girlfriend as opposed to letting the cubs win the series over the sox.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) That doesn't even make any f***ing sense. You lost, grow up. i lost what? don't be an asshole junior. it's a f***ing debate over cliff politte, he shouldn't and won't be an all-star.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) The arguement isn't will he go, the arguement is should he go. Completely different thing. lol well i SHOULD be able to have sex with heidi klum, but that's not happening either.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) If ERA is so important, then Cliff should go. haha touche! if cliff was a closer, he'd be there. he's not, so he won't. that's what it comes down to.

i listed you 12 guys who i think are all-star pitchers. the one guy you don't think is going to go is bob wickman, the saves leader. i am willing to make wagers with anyone and everyone that cliff politte isn't going to the all-star game. i'll bet ANYTHING on this.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:18 PM) God Damn it. Look at all the stats of the top closers, WHIP, BAA, OPSA, K/9 Wickman is behind in all of them. You're the one who brought up ERA, I showed you his ERA sucks compared to other AL closers. Politte's stats> Crain's Politte's stats> Wickman Top three closers in the ALs stats> Wickman. You have absolutley no argument here. a guy who closes games for a living is more deserving than a guy who holds leads in the 7th and 8th for a living. i really don't understand how you don't get this.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) Are you f***ing kidding me? 1st off, Cleveland does NOT have the best bullpen in baseball. 2ndly, Politte > Crain. Only guy I would say is more deserved than Politte is Rhodes but I haven't comparted the #'s. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...128&season=2005 the indians have a bullpen era of 2.78.

and not for nothing, wickman is the closer in the best bullpen in baseball. whether you think he should go or not doesn't matter, because he IS going.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:10 PM) Wickman's 2.79 ERA is not damn good, it's good but not damn good. Take a look at BJ Ryan(1.82), Gaurdado(1.67) and Rivera(0.91) those are the types of ERAs a closer is supposed to have not a high 2. I'm going to go against myself and say f*** Wickman. I hadn't seen his full stats. He can stay home. alright, well since we're back on ERA, crain goes in front of politte.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! you got me. i can't fight that logic.

so far, i've gotten one response that said wickman should stay home on my list. since kalapse finds that laughable, and we disagree on everything, i'm waiting on another guy who shouldn't be on there. anyone else have anything to say?

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) Ok, well what would you like to look at era?? K's?? What?? well, with relievers, it's all about how many runners you allow to score, be it yours or someone elses. and the only way you're getting in ahead of a closer is if you are perfect in the inherited runners scored department. because if it's close, i value a save a little more highly than a hold. so wickman, who has 21 saves and a damn good era, is getting in ahead of cliff politte, who pitches the 7th and 8th and has a damn good era.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) Wickman. 1.31 WHIP? note to soxtalk -- this is not, i repeat, NOT, rotisserie baseball.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:56 PM) Garland? lol yeah, let's leave the al saves leader home and take TWO middle relievers. good one. anyone else?

All-Star pitchers Mark Buerhle Jon Garland Kenny Rogers Roy Halladay Bartolo Colon Matt Clement Johan Santana Mariano Rivera BJ Ryan Eddie Guardado Dustin Hermanson Bob Wickman Alright. Who gets thrown off the island so the Holy Lord of Middle Relief can pitch in the All-Star Game?

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Easy to say that when you only look at a couple of the stats. list me your all-star pitchers. someone. anyone. please.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) Look at all the stats and say that again. he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this.