DrunkBomber

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 06:16 PM) All I am saying is that going from Orton to Cutler was a relatively small improvement at the QB position compared to the other team needs at the time of the trade. In my opinion, they would have been wise to utilize those resources in a different manner. I know the Bears suck at early round drafting but those draft picks combined with the cash tied up into Cutler's contract could have been put to better use at improving WR, OL, etc. I think it's ironic that Kyle freakin Orton had a better passer rating than Jay Cutler in each of the last two seasons...go figure Kyle Ortons team was garbage and he was benched for Tebow at the end of the year. All his numbers were from mop up duty when his team was getting blown out. I get it, you dont like Jay Cutler but your opinion is just that, an opinion.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 05:44 PM) If I was a Bears fan I would be more concerned about Cutler's ability as a QB and ability to win the big game in this league rather than his attitude, ability to play through an injury, etc. Just think about how much the bears gave up for a "franchise" QB (in terms of draft picks, personnel, and cash) and you would have thought they traded for Drew Brees or Tom Brady not Jay Cutler who has proven to be an above average QB in this league but not one to take you over the top. That's what I would be upset about. He was 25 and a pro bowler when they traded for him so what are you talking about?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) I dunno. I guess it's a coincidence we lost to Seattle and Washington when Briggs was out with his injury. Dont get me wrong, Im sure that was part of it. But I also think thats when our o line was still a disaster and there were other factors. When Urlacher was out our defense was basically a joke though.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) How'd the D look in 2009? Seriously, man, what's the f***ing point? Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. If you think Lance Briggs is the key to our defense, over the much more important Brian Urlacher and Julius Peppers, then arguing with you is moot. Hell, you still think Cutler should have played, when 95% of the rest of the world has come around and realized they were fools. Urlacher might be the best tampa 2 mlb of all time. This defense goes as far as he takes it. Briggs is a great player. But even Peppers was MUCH more important to this defense. Hopefully they can get a top tier safety this off season, which is also very important for this defense.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) He said a few different things. He also said "I have empathy for him." I don't know how else you'd characterize that. Having empathy for someone doesnt negate saying that the only way that you wouldnt play is if you were carted off the field. He absolutely didnt side with Cutler. It honestly almost looked like he was taking a few shots at his old rival.

MJDs back peddle was pathetic btw. I knew he was an idiot, I guess I just didnt realize to what degree until now.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:04 PM) Wasn't he already in a similar situation, and came out of the game? Im not defending Rivers. That isnt an argument I have used because its a much different scenario. I was simply pointing out that it was a little misleading saying that link showed Rivers siding with Cutler. He flat out said he would play unless he was carted off the field. That isnt even close to siding with Jay.

Also, Im not "mad" at Jay. Im not trying to pretend I know exactly how everything went down. Im just trying to look at everything objectively.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:52 PM) Yes I saw it. Doesn't refute the text I put before the link. Well I dont really see how saying what I quoted is in anyway "siding" with Jay. Hes just saying he feels bad for him. Hes also saying he would have played.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:49 PM) I'm sure he did and it still supports the fact that Rivers defended him. Everyone's body is different. And the biggest point in that quote is that, if you're not helping your team, you're useless. Cutler was not helping the Bears playing before the injury, and I'm sure little would have changed afterwards. Hes basically sympathizing with him not defending him. Hes saying he would have played and it would take him getting carted off the field to come out of the game. That is not defending Jay.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:04 PM) Philip Rivers sides with Cutler. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81de...iticized-cutler Did you read this?

If the championship games taught us anything its that the 2nd half of this Super Bowl is gonna be a real s*** show

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) All I'm doing is asking for a reason to believe Cutler took himself out or caused himself to be taken out because of mental or physical weakness. All we've seen is that some other people played through a similar injury while some others didn't. We've got every reason to believe he was actually injured (because he was) and that the medical and coaching staff made the call. Nobody knows the answer to this, and I hate to break this to you but that includes you. People are stating their opinions, which they have every right to.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) Sure, they're using the stronger word now, as they should. It's to counter the meatheads who are still insisting Cutler took himself out of the game and to better-inform the many fans who don't know that a Grade II Sprain is a tear. I don't think it's common knowledge for anyone who didn't play sports or take some sort of athletic training or medical classes, so they need to reinforce the severity of the injury before their franchise QB has his reputation in Chicago irreparably damaged. I was pointing to the confirmed diagnosis to reinforce the speculated diagnosis ptatc gave that he had a grade II sprain. Out of curiosity why are you acting like you are winning some hypothetical argument with all of the "meatheads" around Chicago? Youre using facts that we went over hours ago about sprains being tears and the different degrees of the injury like you just blew anyone elses thoughts out of the water with this ground breaking information. Nobody thats questioning how bad the injury was is being unreasonable but youre talking to them like theyre stupid and just making yourself look like a 12 year old.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) Well, I wasn't trying to compare Rivers to Cutler, but rather to point out Rivers is the type of player I admire. Secondly, a torn ACL is far, far worse than a torn MCL, is it not? It is

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:43 PM) Why is that something that is laughable? Because I refuse to agree with you? The fact that I would disagree with your weak argument means mine must be wrong by default? Youre better off ignoring him. He seems like basically the only one on either side here not willing to discuss this reasonably.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:39 PM) In the end, the point is kind of moot. Rivers could have easily screwed his entire career by playing with an injured ACL. One big hit could have put him on the sidelines for the next year. Is it really in everyone's best interest to have Cutler injured for all of next season? I think the argument youll get to a comment like this is that theyd want their quarterback to fight to be on the field in the NFC Championship and not worry about next season.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) Please tell me why you think he was out of the game. Well the obvious foundation is that he was injured. Im not doubting he was injured. At this point Im trying to figure out if there were any other factors. There is obviously little probability that if anything else was weighed into the decision that it will become known. So far I have heard things like his sideline demeanor and moping, his performance, him quitting and that the coaches held him out despite him wanting to play. I dont really know what all the reasons were besides him being injured, I just think there might be more because of what I am hearing about the injury.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) He had a (likely second degree) MCL sprain, was ineffective to begin with and worse with the injury, and the coaching staff decided to pull him rather than risk further injury. Let's say they kept Cutler in. He manages to get a couple of TD's and they take the lead, but he blows out his knee the rest of the way and is done for the SB and requires surgery in the off season. What good does that do anyone? Is that better or worse for the long-term prospects of the franchise? You are really going to use a what if scenario? ok, what if he played the 2nd half, led them to a win and then won the SB and was the MVP? What if then?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) I think people are at the point where nothing will change their minds. I hated cutler yesterday and did think that he quit. But then I got sober. Anyway, I think that jay would've played with that tear two weeks later, or 1 week later, but injuries are a bit more shocking and distracting right when they happen. Same here. Last night I was furious at Cutler and a lot of it was alcohol and/or being upset about the loss. Today I am taking a step back and am trying to get as much info as I can and hoping that whats the Bears are saying is true. Its a weird feeling hoping your franchise qb is hurt so you dont lose your respect/faith in them as a fan. Unfortunately IMO, and I know its only my opinion, I think he could have played and I think if he told the coaches he was good to go they would have kept him in. Im not quick to forget the great year he had and how much he helped the Bears get to the NFC Championship and I will be rooting for him next year without question. That doesnt make me a "meatball" for being disappointed.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:37 PM) I'm sorry, I just can't agree at all that there's nothing to back up my position that Jay's getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s*** in this situation. See here is what youre doing wrong. You are arguing with me like I personally am one of the people who called in the score and said Jay had a sprained vagina. Youre trying to discredit anything I said because "Jays getting a hugely unreasonable amount of s***." Now, am I giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***? No, Im looking at it objectively and discussing opinions with other fans. You on the other hand are acting like the people giving Jay a hugely unreasonable amount of s***, youre just on the other side.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) Nothing to back it up? Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak. What is there to back up questioning his toughness? "Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!" Youre basically exactly what Im talking about. Are you capable of taking part in a constructive conversation? Please just ignore my posts and let me finishing having a discussion with the other people.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Most of the people who are criticizing him started well before anything was known other than that Cutler wasn't playing. A lot of people had emotional reactions based on the situation. Id even venture to say a good number of them were drunk. That doesnt change anything though. Just because a few people are mad for the wrong reasons or jumped the gun with being upset before getting the results doesnt discredit the people who were willing to wait to hear what the injury was to gather an opinion. As I said before, the results of the MRI also derailed a lot of what the people who were supporting Cutler were preaching. Neither side is right, I just find the people who think they are taking some moral high road and calling everyone names because they are questioning what happened laughable. I still dont know how I feel about all of it and I am mostly playing devils advocate, but the people calling the anyone who questions Cutlers toughness an idiot or meatball are ridiculous. Youre reaching for excuses just as much as the other side is and are basically proclaiming yourselves right with nothing to back it up.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) The evidence here points strongly to the fact that this is an injury some people can play through and some can't, with Jay being in the 2nd group. Does that make him some sort of epic sissy? I can't say, and I'm not going to resort to name calling here. But I am surprised, because it's an injury people have played through, Cutler is a guy who has shown to be very tough in the past, yet he didn't play through it. Yes this is basically what Im trying to say. Its not just the "meatball" fans who are curious about why this injury kept him out. The group that is criticizing him more then anyone else are current and former NFL players, some of which have had similar injuries. I wouldnt have expected to hear anything different from the Bears camp but to me it sounds like the coaching staff is covering for him, which they should be.

A lot of the people who have been on Cutlers side of this have been very critical of the people questioning the injury. However, there is a total flip flop going on in their argument. It started off saying how tough he has been and if he says he is too hurt than we have to take his word for it. Then once the MRI results come back and guys like ptatc are saying that in his opinion its a second degree sprain (not calling you out, just using your expertise to prove a point) and isnt an injury that cant be played through that now the excuse is that there is nothing he can do because the coaches/doctors kept him out. There is an enormous difference between being too hurt to play and being capable of playing and being held out by the coaches. Considering he went in the first series in the 2nd half the largest factor in him remaining in the game would be based on how he said he felt. Now Im not doubting the injury and theres no way to know what kind of pain he was in or how much the decision to pull him was injury and how much was performance. But all the people who are s***ting all over people upset about this need to realize that this injury is something can be played through and its been proven many times. Lovie Smith didnt say he pulled him because he was playing bad, he said it was because of the injury. Do you honestly not think if Jay came in after the first series in the 2nd half and said to Lovie "Its sore but Im fine, I can play through it" that he would have stayed in the game?