Steff

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) One of his biggest upsides as a pitcher was his ability to eat up innings and be an all around horse. Now that he has lost that, he has also lost alot of his value. It should also speak volumes of the move by the sox of not signing him long term. Since he has been on LAAAA he has amassed ERAS of 5.01 3.48 5.11 and 6.72, only pitching 200 innings 2 out of 4 years. He may have peaked in 2002-2003. They did all but give him a bj to try to keep him here...

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) I'm not sure there is a past history that is in any way analogous to our current situation. There is no past history of the Sox sucking ass and taking the cheap road to try to fix it...? Where you been the last 25 years?

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:15 PM) That's what having a few kids and sleeping with the biggest white trash in the world will get you. She was so f'n hot when I was in college (4-5 years ago). I would have paid a lot to see that window of love back then. Bzzzz. Her kids didn't travel the love tunnel.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) Excellent point, nicely stated. Agree. However I don't think GP's point is invalid in any way. Past history gives a pretty clear picture of what the Sox will do to try to right the ship. And with ST holders dropping like flies it's way more logical to see band aids being the solution rather than spending money to get the right guys. Kenny - IF still around - will go cheap and on a hunch. Kinda like he did this offseason, IMO.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) The Colon trade was good...as was signing Loaiza...and then trading Loaiza Were you here when the Sox did not offer Colon more $$?? It wasn't good enough that they had offered him the richest contract in team history, but because it wasn't "enough" to keep him here there were hundreds of threads calling for the a public hanging of Kenny. Signing Loaiza was definitely good. Moving him was lucky.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) Steff, I wasn't under the impression that fathom's sources worked for the Sox. Then I misunderstood your request. I thought you asked for crap opinions from the Sox perspective. My bad..

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) Yes, the same ones that laughed at all three moves from the Sox' perspective -- afterall, you had no bones about posting their thoughts on all three deals. I don't think there would be many links of Sox employees publically s***ting on Kenny's deals. Hell, no one would admit Todd was a bad move until Kenny finally did at Soxfest in '05.

Ok. Now I've seen it all. Defense of Kenny pre 2005... Boy I sure do wish this board had not crashed back then...

OK, seriously this is getting stupid. Agree to disagree and move on.

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) Really is the personal attack needed, back your claim up with merit.. Maybe he was referring to when he goes back to school?

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Jul 25, 2007 -> 12:45 PM) What went wrong with this girl? Did she get dropped when she was a baby? The things she does these days, my goodness... No one taught her about personal responsibility. Also, she was raised by parents who thought it was right to drag an infant to NYC and live in a s*** hole apartment while their 11 year old daughter skipped school and starred in Annie. Her E! THS is hysterical as they think this was the greatest thing in the world to do. Crazy, ya'll!!

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) I think you forget a little comment from Jerry about his HAIR..... :P Well, he was starting to look like a girl.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 04:59 PM) oh brother I said stupid people should be shot.... I didn't say I WAS humorous...just that I was BEING humorous. oh well. No harm no foul. I hope. You're married now and this line of conversation surprised you.... oh boy... you could be in for some trouble.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) No, I was asking about McCarthy since you said he wasn't a smart ass out of the gate. Oh good grief.... Depending on who you talk to... Brandon got a bit too big for his britches and that was a huge factor in him being shown the door.

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 02:24 PM) But Stern also said that the NBA was informed by the FBI on June 20 and not before. He denied that he knew about any betting on basketball before that. He seems to be grasping at straws -- if anyone from the FBI contradicts his recollection of events, his league is toast. Wana bet someone does.. ?

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) "Wasn't" as in he became one later? I forgot the "t". I have never, ever, heard a peep about Joe being anything but loved by his peers and his bosses.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 04:32 PM) So he gets no credit for 2005 but gets to take all the credit for 2007? I really don't doubt that KW is an asshole. He's a Stanford graduate, played pro ball, now a GM of an MLB franchise which won a WS... he's accomplished a lot and a certain element of arrogance can almost be expected. I don't see where that attitude would exempt him from being effective in his job. Is demanding excellence out of your employees, even in a harsh manner, a bad trait to have in a leadership position? Personally, I don't blame the state of our recent drafts/ml system on KW. It's enough of a job just to manage the personnel of a ML club. He, much like other GMs, is forced to lean heavily on his scouting and development heads. KW is now in a position with the big league club that he REALLY needs to be able to pull a couple of kids to contribute but there just isn't anyone there. He HAS to hold someone accountable for that and Shaffer was the scapegoat. I have no problem whatsoever with that decision. I have never said anything remotely close to that and I have on several occasions laughed my ass off at the lynch mob around here that seems to blame everyone BUT the players on the field. The same guys I give credit for the win, I give "credit" for the losses.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) no generalizations?? so the "stupid people shouldn't breed" memo wasn't referring to ANYONE but the Lohans? OOOOOOOOOKay Steff. My comment was a joke as well, but somehow the flame got turned on when I stopped to counter your statement. Who's the drama queen? too funny. Well, if you want to be technical, since I was refering to them getting it in their mail thus the memo being for them incinuating that they are in fact the "stupid people" I am refering to in my post... then no. It would not be a generalization but a direct assesment of their stupidity. And I don't believe you were being humerous at all, but so be it.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) right, first...I never said that this "kid" didn't do anything wrong, and for the record, she is a kid if she's acting like this. There are 10 year old kids, there are 20 year old kids and there are 40 year old kids, etc. Age has little to do with it. You're both right, an individual is always responsible for his or her own actions. However, I was simply saying that you're blaming the parents stupidity for this and (you were clearly generalizing) any kid's right to exist. People have to first prove their worth...then get rid of them. That's the difference I was not generalizing. I was speaking specifically about Dina, tweedle dee, and Michael, tweedle dumb, Lohan and their inability, or stupidity as you refer to it above, to nurture their children positively and steer them AWAY from their mistakes. It's clearly apparent that Michael's addictions while this Lohan child was growing up (hopefully the other 2 can be spared) is a huge factor here as is her mother's enabling it then, and continuing to enable it by going out to clubs with her daughter when she was 18, 19, 20 years old. As for my comment regarding any child's right to exist, give me a break and take off the drama queen cap. It was an in jest comment I've made many times about many "stupid" parents who have been posted about in this forum. And no, she is not a kid. She has demonstrated that she is a very bright girl who can make educated adult decisions when she wants to. She is an immature adult who lacks responsibility because she's never seen the role models in her life be held accountable until the past 2 years. Hopefully she learns something from this and changes course. She's got a lot of life ahead of her. It would be a shame to see her go the Dana Plato route.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 03:11 PM) Crede will get 5 million next year no matter what. You don't throw 5 million at an injury prone player and risk him getting injured again when you already have possibly a better option available at a fraction of the price. Umm.. you do realize we are talking about the White Sox here...??

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 02:11 PM) In addition to the stated reasons Fields is the better choice over Crede in 2008, the Sox don't have to worry about attitude problems with Fields like they do with Crede. I doubt Fields would refuse to play winter ball at the request of his team like Crede did, or refuse to have offseason surgery if needed. Wha...???? Now listen... I agree he should have researched having the surgery more than he did.. but to call him an attitude problem because he chose to not risk possibly ending his career is ridiculous. Crede has one of the BEST attitudes on this club. As for Josh.. give him time. Brandon wasn't a smart ass punk right out of the gate either.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 01:05 PM) Steff, I have always valued your insight into front office stuff concerning to Sox. Do you really think KW is a problem though? Should he have credit for winning in 2005? Or is there more to the inner workings we don't know such as someone else actually being the brains and KW trying to take credit for success built on others efforts? Really what I have seen in the last month or so is talk that other GM's are catching on to KW's tactics, but I am not sure I see Reinsdorf firing him over this years failures. But, I want to know more... Yes, I do think Kenny is the problem and have thought that since '03. I will be the first to admit I am totally biased in wanting him canned, but I can also evaluate specific accomplishments of his and praise him appropriately. Do I credit him for 2005? No. I credit the players who played their asses off, and the managerial decisions that paid off. Yes, Kenny assembled the team (with LOTS of help from Ozzie), but if not for the chemistry between the players, no way we would have won it all. I don't really understand what you mean about Kenny's "tactics". He does what he does the way he does it and that's that. Sadly that "that" is a lot of times an arrogant jerk, IMO of course. :rolleyes Will he be fired... I have no idea. Should he... I say yes, but I am speaking with my heart as I smell the stentch that has become White Sox baseball this year.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 12:58 PM) I disagree. Stupid people should be shot. The kids didn't do anything wrong. These "kids" are able to make decisions for themselves. Sadly they've been taught to act like douchebags. However, as adults with minds of their own they have the CHOICE to follow the path of the morons who have "taught" them how to be drug addicted alkies, or to be a better human being. Spears, Hilton, Ritchie, Lohan... all these females have been in trouble and/or rehab NUMEROUS times. They did plenty wrong.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) It is sad when someone who is obviously talented and given so much at an early age chooses this lifestyle. But for every Lindsay Lohan, there is a Natalie Portman. The deciding factor always seems to be the parents...and we all know Lindsay's mon and dad. Ding, ding, ding.. winner. Stupid people shouldn't breed. Apparently the Lohan's didn't check their mail the day that memo was sent out.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) One of his sons is supposed to be a very good athlete, but I don't know if that was the one or not. Good runner I hear... Very good at "bash and dash", too.