Felix

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:19 AM) As far as looking at the warts on Cindy crawford's face [the poor splits on the road, avg. vs one handed pitchers, etc] --you can always find faults with a guy. Taveras does have skills. More than I thought after looking at him a little closer So, you would want a guy who hits .330/.350/.355 (not sure if those are exactly right, but they are close) while hitting at one of the biggest hitters parks in the league, but then hits .250/.270/.275 (again, they might be a bit off) everywhere else? Since USCF is not as much of a hitting park as Minute Maid Park (IIRC), his numbers are bound to drop from how they were last year at home, which will make his overall numbers look even worse than they already are. Just like in the Pierre to Sox discussion awhile ago, we don't need him. He's Scott Podsednik v2, except worse. We already have our fast guy who doesn't hit for much power. We don't need another. And as posted before, here are the ZiPS projections: Name P AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS Anderson cf .263 .323 .425 130 464 68 122 21 3 16 57 38 113 6 3 Taveras cf .293 .334 .342 148 552 83 162 12 3 3 41 28 96 37 20 Assuming these are close (I know, they might not be), I guess the question is, are you willing to give up the .10 in OBP for a ton of extra slugging? Personally, I couldn't care less what your role is on a team, but if you have almost 600 at-bats, and only 20 extra base hits (while being a speedy guy, so having an advantage of getting around the bases quickly), you aren't a good player.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 01:31 AM) I dont give a damn about his OPS... when your hitting at the top of the order all I care is you getting on base. And yes for a rookie it was a great season considering most rookies dont do that well when they first make it to the big leagues. If im right he made the jump from AA so whats to think he wont improve greatly considering how well he did his first season. So again, how is having a .325 OBP (and .282 OBP on the road) a great season? And I don't really care what your role is on a team, but to have only 20 XBH (13 being doubles) throughout the ENTIRE year (nearly 600 at bats) while playing in one of the biggest hitters parks in the league, is downright pathetic. Hell, even Podsednik had 29, and he didn't hit anything but doubles (and one triple).

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 01:09 AM) Idonno why u guys are trying to make dumb jokes like he sucks.... he just had a great rookie season when he started from begining to end so pitchers had time to adjust to him and he still did a pretty good job. He wasnt amazing or anything but being at the top of the order your rookie season is no easy feat. If you could explain to me how a .666 OPS, 20 XBH, and 103 K's (while playing in one of the biggest hitters parks in the league) is a great rookie season, that would be great. Oh, and just for fun. Out of all the batters with 400 or more plate appearances, guess who has the least amount of extra base hits? You guessed it! Its Willy! Do you know where Reed was playing? He was in Safeco, a major pitchers park, and yet he still had a better year than Taveras (.674 OPS compared to .666). He had 39 XBH, and had a much more reasonable BB:K ratio (48:74).

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:35 PM) An interesting note is that Willy Taveras is a Boras client, although he will still be cheap for years regardless. But come on! He'll make millions and millions through arbitration because he's soooooooooo good!!!1

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 05:05 PM) I'll say it again for you, nice and simply: When shooting for a second WS victory and the need to fill a hole at one position, players who are very good defensively, have great speed on the bases, and are at least adequate at the plate are preferable to players with little or no MLB experience. On one hand, you have a player who has had at least some success in the majors and you have a good idea of what you're going to get the following season. On the other hand, young players who haven't had time to adjust to major-league pitching are big question marks. If they don't make the adjustment quickly enough (or at all), they could be liabilities down the stretch. QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:34 PM) The Astros had Taveras as their starting CF all of last year, were they aiming for rebuilding? We had Bobby Jenks as our closer in the toughest spots of the year, were we rebuildingthen ? We had McCarthy take the spot of El Duque last year, were we rebuilding then?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:52 PM) I hope it's your last post as well, as those who engage in ad hominemattacks are intellectually worthless. And yet you still ignore the entire post which logically goes against everything you've debated.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:49 PM) i would guess it would either be count or vasquez. I think freddy will stay here. If Freddy goes, Ozzie would go crazy. If Count goes, this board goes crazy. If Vazquez goes, I'll be happy as hell. [edit] Wait, wasn't Phil Rogers the same guy who said there would be a 4 team trade? If so, this has lost all its validity from my perspective.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 05:26 AM) So predictions on who's going to make it and who's not for the AFC and NFC. I don't like our chances depending on a win from either Oakland or Philadelphia. I think Oakland will win, but not Philadelphia

Hopefully my last post in this thread.. its become a joke. QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:30 PM) (1) Anderson has little MLB experience and the Sox aren't "rebuilding." Developing young players isn't a priority this year. Are you blind, or just have a 3 second memory? The Astros had Taveras as their starting CF all of last year, were they aiming for rebuilding? We had Bobby Jenks as our closer in the toughest spots of the year, were we rebuildingthen ? We had McCarthy take the spot of El Duque last year, were we rebuilding then? As is Brian Anderson, whats the point of trading for something you already have? We were 4th in the majors last year in SBs.. we need more? a.) As is Taveras, AGAIN, look at him outside of Minute Maid Park. b.) If he comes to Chicago, he'll be batting second, not 9th.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) All because of a rumor from f***ing mlbtraderumors.com? There were also 16 on Carl Crawford, based on the same site http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44000

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) Contreras for Taveras, Qualls, and Hirsh/Patton. It's the only way I wouldn't b**** about this rumored trade. I still would, simply because trading for Taveras means Anderson wouldn't get a shot.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) Perhaps you forgot that they started 15-30. Perhaps you forgot where they ended up..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:59 PM) WTF are you talking about? Why couldn't he hit 9th? He would not be effective as a #9 hitter. As a #9 hitter, you get no protection, someone like Taveras desperately needs protection..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:59 PM) I'm sorry, are the Sox rebuilding and developing young players this year? I must've missed the memo. :rolly AGAIN, were the Astros rebuilding and developing young players last year? They ended up in the World Series with Taveras as their CF for the whole year..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:58 PM) Who said that he would replace Pods as a leadoff hitter? No one, but if Taveras were to hit anywhere but the leadoff spot, that team would have serious issues.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) You forgot about the 34 stolen bases And you forgot to read just about all the posts in this thread..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:52 PM) How did the team do back in August when he was injured? How did the team do in the second half (when he had was 52% at SB) compared to the first half? Also, we had Timo Perez taking his place. Timo Perez..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) Oh, really? Podsednik's was only 72% this year. Don't tell me he didn't help the Sox win consistently. In the first half of the year, his SB% was 83%. In the second half of the year, his SB% was 52%. When did he help the team more, the first or second half?

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Wow, another weak counter-argument. You're just full of them today, aren't you? I'm simply saying that a team that's just won a WS and is in position to win another would be better off going with proven talent, rather than a question mark. It may not be wise to give up a starting pitcher for said proven talent, but a less-costly trade for said player is something that the GM should at least consider. But AGAIN, what has Taveras proven? That he's a below average offensive player? That he gets thrown out 35% of them time when stealing bases? That he can't get any extra-base hits, or get a high OBP (which is needed for his type of player to be effective at all)? Or that he can't hit anywhere outside of Minute Maid Park? All of this is proven, but none of it supports your argument.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) But we don't even know that Anderson can play at the major league level yet. So, it's all speculation. So by that logic, minor league players should never be given a shot in the majors, since it would all be speculation on how they do.

Just for fun, here are some 2006 ZiPS projections: Brian Anderson: .263/.323/.425 21 2B, 3 3B, 16 HR, 6 SB, 3 CS (67%) Juan Pierre: .293/.346/.364 22 2B, 10 3B, 2 HR, 52 SB, 22 CS (70%) Willy Taveras: .293/.334/.342 12 2B, 3 3B, 3 HR, 37 SB, 20 CS (64%) If they all put up similar numbers to those, not only will Anderson be better than Taveras and Pierre 2006, but he will be better than them in 2005 as well..

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:21 PM) Rowand certainly has the advantage with power and slugging percentage, but that doesn't matter because Pierre's a leadoff hitter. Pierre's career OBP is 20 points higher and he's averaged close to 55 stolen bases/season over the past 5 years. Pods very clearly showed us how much of an impact a proficient base-stealer can have on a team. And the difference in defense is less than you think it is. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but I'm sticking with Pierre. Rowands 2005 RAR (Runs above Replacement): 27 Pierres 2005 RAR: 12 Look at literally just about any defensive stat around. Rowand >>>>>> Pierre.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:10 PM) According to that horses*** table, the Red Sox should've scored 2.4366 runs in the 6th inning in game 3 of the ALDS. Are you saying that with the bases loaded and 0 outs, they shouldn't have scored 2.4366 runs?

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) I think he has a better arm than Damon does. But i haven't really watched Pierre play so i don't know for sure. Thats like saying you are a better defensive catcher than Piazza..

Good for Willie. I hope he does well in Colorado.