SoxFan1

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:51 AM) I don't think the win against TB was when they were in the midst of their terrible slump...was it? No, it was shortly after. On Aug 31, the Rays had a 5.5 game lead and on Sept 15, they were tied with BOS. The Liriano game was Sept 21.

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:22 AM) Yea, but you know how savvy KW can be sometimes. I mean, look at how he stole God from the Diamondbacks. I just made some of those crazy predictions with KW's savviness in mind. Besides, if the Marlins traded Willingham and Olson for what the got in return, then I don't see why it's not possible we can trade away some of our "valued" prospects such as Lillibridge for Hanley Ramirez. Plus, Florida is so dirt-cheap that they probably want Hanley's new contract off the payroll already. Do you understand how incredible Hanley Ramirez is? Willingham and Olson don't have squat on Hanley. KW can have the savvy of everyone in the universe and he still wouldn't be able to pry Hanley away from the Marlins without giving up 1/2 the talent in our organization.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:19 AM) Yes, but look at who most of those starts were against... He somehow ended up missing almost all of the really good teams in the AL. I think his most impressive win was beating up the Indians when they were in one of their patented 2nd half hot streaks to look respectable. However, in the biggest start of his career, he was roughed up by the Royals, which was one of the most important losses of the season in tipping the division back in our direction. I'm yet to be convinced he's even close to the same pitcher. I think half his results were intimidation/name factor from 2006 and the fact that he was facing almost all "inferior" AL teams and not pitching against any contending teams....maybe once or twice in those 11 starts. This is true. He faced CLE x2, KC x3, SEA x2, OAK x2, DET once and TB once. Out of his 11 2nd half starts, he struck out more than 5 only 4 times, and got raped once by KC and once by CLE when it mattered most. His best start was 7 innings vs TB where he gave up 1 run on 5 hits and struck out 7 but walked 4.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:07 AM) I think Marquez was the #8 prospect for the Yankees, maybe as recently as coming into 2008 or 2007. The Royals, with Meche, Greinke, Bannister, Davies, Hochevar/Torres and the Indians Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Lewis, Sowers/Laffey/Jackson would appear to also at least have the potential to be very strong rotations, IF IF IF they pitch up to their potential. From looking at it objectively, the Royals might have the best rotation in our division if Hochevar and Torres pitch as well as expected (unless Liriano gains his 2006 form and not the 2008 version after surgery). You're right, he was #9 going into 2006. 06 Yankees Top 10, Baseball America

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:58 AM) *Trade Lillibridge, Nix, Gilmore, and Santos Rodriguez to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez. (Put someone proven at either 2B or SS instead of Lillibridge/Getz. Put Hanley at SS and Alexei at 2B. Hanley would provide us with the speed element we would need while also providing some pop. We got a lot of prospects, we can flip them for someone like Henley who is still young and cheap for someone with his skills.) *Trade Brian Anderson, Lillibridge, Cole Armstrong and cash to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Matt Kemp. (This would never happen, too bad we never took advantage of the Dodgers' crowded outfield to pry loose either Kemp or Ethier.) The Hanley offer is just ludicrous and FLO would never negotiate with KW again if he legitimately offered that. It's probably take Poreda, Alexei, AND another top prospect to even start talks for Hanley. The LAD offer is our scraps for their studs, another wowzer.

Talk about upgrading... 2008: 1. Aaron Poreda, lhp 2. Lance Broadway, rhp 3. Jack Egbert, rhp 4. Jose Martinez, of 5. Chris Getz, 2b 6. John Ely, rhp 7. Juan Silverio, ss 8. John Shelby Jr., of 9. Adam Russell, rhp 10. Kyle McCulloch, rhp 2009: 1. Gordon Beckham, ss 2. Dayan Viciedo, 3b 3. Aaron Poreda, lhp 4. Tyler Flowers, c 5. Clayton Richard, lhp 6. Brandon Allen, 1b 7. Jordan Danks, of 8. Brent Lillibridge, ss 9. Chris Getz, 2b/ss/of 10. John Shelby, of

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:19 AM) The Twins were able to get away with it with Blackburn and Perkins at their 4/5 with the likes of Livan Michelin Man Hernandez getting the majority of starts before Liriano was finally brought back up (too late). I wouldn't go as far as to say that Richard/Marquez are/were similarly regarded, but you can certainly say that most scouts believe Poreda will have a bigger impact than G. Perkins (with the continued development of his secondary pitches, one caveat). Baseball America had Nick Blackburn as the Twins #1 prospect after 2007 and had a 2.11 ERA in AAA in 2007 before being called up. Perkins was a 1st round pick in 2004 and was up and down for years throughout the Twins organization. He was also called up after Scott Baker went down, but stuck. Poreda was also a 1st round pick, 25th overall and is currently our 2nd rated prospect, and 56 overall according to mlb.com, which has a terrible list. Richard is currently listed as our #3 prospect by Baseball America, but was our 8th round pick in 2005. You could probably argue that Poreda/Richard are a better duo, based of minor league success, but if both of them are in our rotation, it leaves us with 4 lefties and Gavin. Marquez, on the other hand, was a supplemental round pick, and from what I see, was never a top 10 prospect for the Yanks. He had good success in AA in 2008 w/ a 2.93 ERA in 3 starts, giving up 5 runs and striking out 12 in 15.1 innings, but had a 4.96 ERA in AAA in 14 starts with some bad peripherals. And just for no reason, the Twins 09 rotation looks like... Scott Baker, 26 Francisco Liriano, 24 Kevin Slowey, 24 Nick Blackburn, 26 Glen Perkins, 26 That's a helluva nice, young rotation they have in place, not to mention they have Bonser just sitting there. How scary is it that they dealt Garza away too... We're currently looking at this for 09... Mark Buehrle, 30 John Danks, 23 Gavin Floyd, 26 Clayton Richard, 25 Jeff Marquez, 24/Aaron Poreda, 22/Lance Broadway, 25

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 12:36 AM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3670284.story Quotes from Ozzie's PC about "these kids can play version 2" Let's take a look at what we currently have compared to what we had last season... C 08 Pierzynski - C 09 Pierzynski = WASH 1B 08 Konerko - 1B 09 Konerko = WASH, though hopefully he has a much better 09 2B 08 Ramirez - 2B 09 Getz/Lil/Nix/Betemit = 08 SS 08 Cabrera - SS 09 Ramirez = 09 3B 08 Crede/Uribe - 3B 09 Fields/Betemit = ?, while he'll probably have better offensive output, we're taking a big dip on D. LF 08 Quentin - LF 09 Quentin = WASH CF 08 Swish/JR - CF 09 Owens/Lil/Anderson = Wash, pretty much all suck RF 08 Dye - RF 09 Dye = WASH So what I'm seeing is a probably rebound from PK as he finished the season pretty strong, and probably regression from CQ and JD. Fields will outproduce the Crede/Uribe duo, but his defense isn't even close, though Crede sucked last year. We're losing a bit of power in CF, but gaining better defense. 2B and CF are probably the biggest toss ups offensively. As far as SP goes, we've lost the Vazquez and will go most of the season (probably) without Contreras, so substitute in 2 of Richard/Poreda/Marquez/Egbert/Broadway. There is no doubt we're going to feel more hurt in the rotation than we do with the offense. I have some faith in Richard though. He pitched very well in the playoffs and had some promising starts. Endurance will surely be an issue with the 4/5 spots, which leads me to believe Carrasco will be used a lot in the long relief role and the 3rd place finisher of the competition might get a spot as a long man in the bullpen also. The bullpen is essentially the same right now. The way I see it, if we go into 2009 with this team, it's going to be a long, rough season. Offensively, we can probably live with 2 of 2B/3B/CF being internal options, but to have all 3 as question marks going into the season isn't a great idea (barring any breakout surprises). As far as the pitching staff goes, again, barring any surprises (and expecting slight regression from Danks/Floyd), we won't be able to succeed with only 3 "sure things" in the rotation, but in any sport, nothing is a sure thing. If I'm KW, my main targets right now are a lead off man who can play one of SS/2B/CF and a SP (#4 guy at worst) who can eat a lot of innings. I'd be content with the team if those 2 things were added right now. Thats why, if I'm KW, I sign Furcal and do my damndest to find a SP in FA (Johnson, Lowe, Wolf, Garland, Penny, Perez) or via the trade market. The only way I trade Dye is if I'm going to be adding 2 reasonably big salaries to the payroll, in which case 2 of Abreu/Dunn/Lowe/Furcal/Sheets/Rivera/Hudson.

It's a shame he was Serbian...but he spells his name with an "h" at the end so forget him.

QUOTE (Yoda @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 04:06 PM) I only have one final which is early tomorrow morning. It's for my Sociology 100 class. I have mixed feelings going in to it; haven't taken a final since mid-May. Soc is relatively easy. Know conflict-theory, social movements, and s*** of that nature... 2nd final (GEO) down, pretty confident with how I did. Last one on Thursday for Euro HST.

It's too quiet...something HAS to be brewing.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 05:23 PM) It was made by poor people in a third-world country. Am I the only one who finds that a bit over the line?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Dec 9, 2008 -> 04:18 PM) Brad Penny and Brian Anderson preparing to reunite and have another night out on the town. I think we're looking at Abreu (LF) and Penny (4th starter, with Richard/Marquez 5th) in the FA market. When he does get around to trades, I think if KW can flip Fields and a low level spect to the Marlins for Hermida, he will, especially if Dye is dealt. He'll also explore a trade for Brian Roberts but the price will be too high...he may still pull the trigger. As a last resort, if he doesn't get Roberts, he'll look to get Tavares for Broadway and he'll start in CF and lead-off (ugh!). From what I read here, you expect 5 guys in our outfield next year? Abreu and Quentin both in LF, Dye and Hermida in RF, and Taveras in CF? A ball would never drop in that outfield!

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 08:48 PM) well hello folks Really...it's not even 8 o'clock in Iowa...

MON: Sociology final, online, got an 85 TUE: Geology of the Great Lakes WED: Speech (just sitting there for an hour, finished all my presentations last week) THU: European Civilizations

Carl Everett had the ground out that moved Willie Harris to 3rd and allowed him to score easily on Dye's single...

I saw them a couple years ago in the United Center. Its a great show, and I've always loved them.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:53 PM) How about this to ponder. Would you rather trade for Taveres or pick up Patterson and not give up any talent? If the Sox want speed and he dropped Boras, Patterson is a possibility. I'd still probably take Taveras. From everything I've read, Taveras will come cheap. He's slightly younger, probably less frustrating to watch, and there is no question he's faster. Like I said yesterday, I gladly welcome the idea of Taveras in CF and batting 9th for the Sox.

QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) Yeah, and that's why I asked if he retired. I couldn't find him on Cot's Baseball Contracts, but I don't remember hearing that he would be gone. That's because he's currently a free agent.

It's here for me...the week of the GM Meetings, yay. I have an online final today. but Blackboard is down. Great start.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 06:32 AM) of this cliche. He can "fix" everyone at once. He's a pitching coach...it's his job. And he does a damn good job of it.

QUOTE (1399 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:19 AM) Ummm guys. It's looking like the deal isnt a deal after all so why the hype? If it turns out to be true then I have no problem trading Dye for Bailey straight up. Dye and his whopping .210 average with RISP will not be missed. Besides, despite Dye having a decent 08 season he was one of the problems (Thome, Swisher, Paulie, Dye) that couldnt drive runs in so I dont see what we would be missing if Dye's over paid ass was traded. If this rumor is true then I say good f***ing riddence and see if Cinci would be interested in Paulie and Thome too. Im sick of seeing multi millionaires under achieving. If were going to have s***ty production then let it be from some younger kids that are eager to play. The middle of the order sucked to say the least and was flat. Change is needed and it's time for Kenny to take out the trash as he has already started to do with Swisher and Javy. I can only hope there are more trades to follow soon. What on Earth are you talking about? After CQ, Dye was our biggest producer. For reference, he batted .269 with RISP (.210 RISP w/2 out). He couldn't drive in runs? .292/34/96 on a station to station team begs to differ, not to mention he was 2nd in the AL in extra base hits, something the White Sox sorely lacked. To say good riddance to Jermaine Dye is just despicable and classless.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:10 AM) the sound of "He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement." and "Don Cooper" together make me very happy inside. It's pretty much a perfect fit. If he's healthy, Homer Bailey is going to be a stud with the help of Don Cooper.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:05 AM) Seems like several people have their own opinions about his speed, his stuff, and what ails him. Here's a November 2007 year-end report on Bailey that should clear up some of the misinformation... Background: A couple of days after holding the Athletics to two hits in seven innings in his third big league start, he slipped and strained his groin. He tried pitching through it, but after he allowed 14 runs over 11 innings in his next three starts, the Reds shut him down for two months. Strengths: Once he was healthy again in September, Bailey was back throwing in the mid-90s with his fastball and buckling knees with his curveball. They're both already well above-average major league pitches, and he has shown the ability to take a little off his heater. He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement. Weaknesses: Bailey has no shortage of pure stuff, but he still has to refine his control and command to get big league hitters out and to work deeper into games. He threw strikes on only 58 percent of pitches in the majors and just 61 percent in Triple-A. His changeup is still below average. If Bailey's issues have anything to do with some mechanical issues, there is no doubt in my mind that once Don Cooper gets to him, he's going to blossom. Besides, Dusty Baker is their manager and the Reds don't exactly have an Oakland Athletic-like track record for developing pitchers.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:00 AM) Slav, my problem is the Sox have already "lost" close to 40 million in salary from last season. That should be enough to be able to sign a FA or two if needed. Dumping Dye for a "project" to me is bulls*** given what has already gone on this off-season with Swisher and Vazquez. I'm not opposed to trading Dye. But doing it so it frees up more payroll room doesn't fly with me. Not after they have raised ticket prices and cut 35+ of payroll already. It's still early in the off-season. How many players have signed contracts already? If this was the middle of January and we hadn't spent the money, then I'd be concerned. But we had to wait on the Orlando Cabrera situation first to see our set financials. There is no doubt in my mind that things will be crazy in the next 2 weeks. KW has to know something about Homer Bailey that everyone else doesn't, and since he's the GM of a major league baseball team, I'd imagine that this is the case. He has an excellent track record for trades and there is no way he is making this deal without some sort of bigger, overlying plan.