Jack Parkman

A walk has a 1.000 OBP.

How is holding people accountable a hot take? Jesus fucking Christ people. If people think that I think Madrigal and Vaughn are horrible picks, you've got it all wrong. They supposedly have special qualities,(I know that) but their limitations lower the margin for error to become a plus MLB player. I think that top 5 picks should have more margin for error with similar upside. That is all I was trying to say.

This. Nice post. This is the point I was trying to make.

Yes I do. It is used as a predictive measure. Average BABIP is .300. Theoretically, if a hitter put every single ball in play over 5 years it would average to a .300 BA. It is used to look for outliers and predict regression to the mean. Madrigal probably has had a BABIP that is abnormally high. You can't hit as well as he does without one, and you can't sustain it without driving the ball consistently. Madrigal doesn't drive the ball like that.

Haha, not striking out is still a good thing but there is a balance. Striking out 20 times is a season is literally giving away 1/5 of your at bats. The only way you can strike out that little is by swinging at crap a lot. Juan Pierre had 200 hits a bunch of times but he had a really low OBP because he had no power and swung at crap. Sometimes he got lucky and it found its way through the infield.

It has a lot to do with swinging early in the count and not going deep into counts. The easiest way to not strike out is to not get into 2 strike counts.

OBP is OBP, those players come along once every couple decades.

I'd bet they all strike out a lot too. Even Mike Trout strikes out over 100 times per season.

Bonds on Roids was superhuman. He broke the game.

It wouldn't be because the thing that makes a high BABIP sustainable is a high EV. I doubt that a player with as little power as Madrigal is driving the ball with authority often. Go on though.

Barry Bonds was doing Steroids. Try again.

Yes. Pitchers don't make enough mistakes. In order to make contact at an elite rate you have to swing at a metric shit ton of pitcher's pitches. Why do you think there has been a push throughout baseball to make striking out acceptable? As Ks go down so does OBP.

It's just math dude. More balls put in play=more outs. It is the point of BABIP. Also, to put the ball in play as much as Madrigal does you have to have poor plate discipline. Pitchers don't throw enough meatballs.

Ask Adam Engel how that's working out for him.

I'm not trying to ruin the thread, I'm trying to have a discussion about draft philosophy. The point I'm trying to make is when you pick a guy with limitations on his game like Madrigal and Vaughn have, it is less likely those tools that supposedly make them special must translate to the Majors. The Ichiro thing was intended hyperbole to prove a point. If Madrigal hits .280 with a .315 OBP and no power that isn't an MLB player. If Vaughn hits .260 with a .320 OBP and 20 HR that isn't either. You're lessening your chances to get a positive MLB profile with guys like that.

Because hitting and speed are his only above average tools. Not striking out is a double edged sword because it usually comes with a low OBP.

That still doesn't excuse making a horrible pick that high.

What is the average career WAR of a top 5 pick? Like 5-7 or something? That includes guys who never make the majors or make it and are negative WAR players.

Madrigal has no power and Vaughn has no positional versatility. Madrigal has to be Ichiro to justify picking him where they did. Vaughn has to hit .300 with 35 HR every year to justify picking him where they did.

I just am not a fan of taking a guy with no power or positional versatility in the top 5. I disagree with it on principle.

Idk why he went away from the cutter in the 1st half. It was a good pitch for him last year.

This is the way firings should be done. You get people to leave a company by treating them like Milton in Office Space. (minus the lack of pay, of course)

Both are issues. I've already said that.

Yes exactly.

We're not though. I don't give two shits if either guy is 6-0 or not. When I'm picking top 5 I want a guy that has a chance to be a middle of the order bat at a premium defensive position. Vaughn and Madrigal aren't that type of player.