WCSox

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:59 PM) There's no way he gets that much. Market value fluctuates from year to year. If he wants $75 million, then I'm with fathom... trade him. Look at Burnett's stats. His career ERA is 0.10 points higher than Mark's, despite the fact that he pitched exclusively in the NL prior to this season. His career WHIP is also higher. Oh, and Burnett only pitched 200 innings TWICE in his entire freaking career... and he threw his team under the bus... and had Tommy John surgery... yet he still got 5 years/$55 million... from the freaking Blue Jays, of all teams. Given that, I don't think that 5 years/$75 million is a pipe dream for Buehrle. He'll only be 28 after next season and his career numbers blow away Burnett's. I'm not saying that the Sox should re-sign him at that rate, but the market will definitely force his value way above what Burnett got.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:50 PM) How much more expensive is he going to be? He's not a $15M pitcher. He'll get Tim Hudson money (IIRC, 4yrs/$44M) imo, which isn't all that much more than he's earning now. No, he'll get more than that. If Burnett got 5 years/$55 million, Buehrle will get 5 years/$75 million. Completely agree, and the fact that he's not in the top tier of pitchers will keep his price down far enough that JR won't shy away from re-signing him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) I agree, but if he'll net you a package like what he mentioned, you do it in a second. Remember, Buehrle's going to be very expensive soon. Also keep in mind that Contreras is going to be very old soon and that Vazquez and Freddy don't look like long-term solutions. And the loss of those three are going to free up over $30 million/year in payroll. Unless some GM lost his mind and offered me a young stud like Kazmir or Harden as part of the deal, there's no way that I'd deal Buehrle this season. Especially not when we're coming off of a championship season and are on pace to win over 100 games halfway through the season. I'd see how he finishes the season and would consider dealing him if his numbers are below his career average next July.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:11 PM) Well, if they would do that trade, see ya Mark. I can understand people jumping on Garland for his "Judly-like" pitching earlier this year, but I'm shocked that Buehrle is suddenly trade bait after three bad starts. If anybody on this staff deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's Mark Buehrle.

Thanks for the memories, Cliff. You were a large part of this team's success last season and are a class act. Get that surgery, get healthy, and sign with another team next year. I'd hate to see your career end now. QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) He's got a power arm. command ain't much. He's Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn. He'll do mop-up duty for now.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 01:18 PM) Well, we definately need new pitchers. Hopefully KW knows what to do. Outside of maybe another veteran bullpen arm, we're pretty much stuck with what we have.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 01:14 PM) Jenks sucks in non-save situations. He hasn't pitched that well in his last three or four appearances. Today's a good day for him to work through it.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:59 PM) since your living in the past, I will take Bob Gibson, and sandy koufax over maddux and glavine. And I'll raise you Cy Young and Ed Walsh. But that doesn't change the fact that "maxing out at 92" isn't necessarily a negative for a pitcher. I thought that this was common knowledge, but apparently not.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:45 AM) It's a combination of things. Our pitchers pitched over their heads last season, Vazquez is pitching like he normally does (mediocre), and historically a lot of times staffs that pitch late into October often have down years the following season. I'm not sure about that last part, but much of this staff really did pitch over it's head last season. Garland was an All-Star, Contreras was nearly unhittable from August-October, B-Mac had a very good rookie campaign, Hermanson was a stud closer, Politte was a rock-solid setup man, Freddy had his best year since '01, and Mark had arguably his best season ever. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:41 PM) Perhaps Mark Buehrle is following the career path of Dwight Gooden afterall. Mark's a cokehead?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:49 PM) Its time right now for KW to tell Politte if he wants to continue pitching he can go to Charlotte or he can be released and pitch for another organization's AAA affiliate. I knew Politte would suck in March. If they still think he has a chance to be helpful other than pitching batting practice, they are out of their minds. ^^^

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:29 PM) In the meantime we need to stop drafting crafty guys who top off at 92. Yeah, it would've been a damn shame if we'd have had Maddux and Glavine, "crafty" guys who don't throw that hard, on our staff back in the '90s. :rolly

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) 30 hits. 24 runs. 14 innings! Kyle Lohse laughs at that line. You're right. He's definitely washed up. Let's trade him!

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) Buehrle was 1-10 in '03 if you'll remember... then went 13-4 Yep, and like I said, he bounced back.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) Can you find a stretch in his career where he has an ERA of 14 over three games? Seems to me, this hasn't happened before. Perhaps not, but Buehrle has definitely had his share of bad games before. And three bad starts isn't enough to suggest that "he's lost it."

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:14 PM) I think people are just spoiled by Hawk's homerism, and anyone who doesn't state the Sox are the greatest team ever is automatically described as a Sox hater. I don't have a problem with Buck's announcing. It's a hell of a lot better than Berman. No, Buck is definitely worse than other announcers on national telecasts. Even the opposing teams' broadcast crews that I listen to over Extra Innings give the Sox more props than Buck.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:07 PM) I expect him to be a great pticher on a playoff contending team. So do I. But saying that "he's lost it" after three bad starts is asinine. 14-14, 4.13 ERA, 1.35 WHIP. Not very good numbers for an ace. But he turned it around after that. That last part makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, he's pitching like crap right now. But you're acting like it's never happened before.

QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) Is it me or does Joe Buck intensely hate the White Sox He seemed to be almost pouting during that Thome home run I got that impression during last year's playoffs as well. He seemed less than enthusiastic after a Sox win.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) I second that. Why is it wrong to say that Ozzie shouldn't have pulled Paulie? I agree.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 12:00 PM) I misspoke earlier. Brian is hitting only .346 this month. Now if he could only get a decent haircut...

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) Well I don't live in the past. Your only as good as today, and today he is not good. When he retires I will look back on his past. he cannot continue to give up 6-7-8 runs and expect to be called a number 1 or 2 pitcher. He has lost it, I think KC is coming up next month so that should help him out. Maybe he will only give up 4 or 5 runs to them. It's a bit premature to say that Mark "has lost it," especially if there's no evidence of injury or diminished skills. Agreed that he's pitched like crap in his last three or so starts, but he didn't have a very good season in '03 and rebounded from that nicely.

QUOTE(Misplaced_Sox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:44 AM) See this is why we need to draft some project electric arms with good fastballs... What we need to do is trade for younger pitching this winter. McCarthy is our only young guy who is able to pitch effectively in the majors right now. Garland will never be anything more than a #3 or #4 and we only have Buehrle under contract for one more season.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:44 AM) buehrle is Horrible. Nothing else to say about him, except as I predicted last week we would be 6 games out after the tiger series and fighting for the wild card spot. the ship is sinking and we will need a trade big time to infuse some light in this team. 51 pitches is not that many pitches for buehrle, could be he is hurt . Dude's thrown 220+ innings over the last five seasons. But if he were hurt, he probably wouldn't be throwing as hard. Haven't seen today's game, but he didn't look like he's lost much velocity in his last two starts.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 09:39 AM) I agree neither are going anywhere. KW probably put their names out there. But no team will give the Sox their asking price. I agree. There's a lot of talk here about getting rid of Garcia "before the other GMs figure out that he's washed up." Well, hell, if WE know that he's not throwing as hard as he used to, I don't see how other GMs and their scouts aren't aware of it as well. That is their job, after all. If the Sox were to deal Garcia before the deadline, they wouldn't get a ton in return and would likely be eating part of the remainder of his contract. I don't see any of our starters going anywhere this season.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:33 PM) If we give an effort, an honest full-hearted effort, and it fails - there's nothing we could do. If we half ass it and it fails, we do bear some responsibility for it. Small events can change minds abruptly. Will every islamofascist change their mind? Of course not. The idea is to change the minds of the people in the governments across the world. To change the minds of the people that are in the street too, that aren't islamofascists either - but just people. Oh, I agree that we should do what we can to win the hearts and minds of "Ahmed Average" in the Middle East. However, that's not going to change the fact that the Islamofascists that run Iran and Syria will use their state-controlled media outlets to spin whatever good effort we make into an anti-Muslim act. We're better off trying to change the minds of other governments - especially those that are UN members. I hate to say it, but somebody's going to have to force a regime change in Iran at some point (and I hope that it's the UN, not just America). This latest conflict was instigated by them (it's no coincidence that it came at a time that the UN was considering taking action against Iran for their nuke program). Hitler Jr. cannot be allowed to support terrorists and pursue nuclear weapons - that's a potentially-catastropic combination. The fact that we've set up a U.S.-friendly regime next door in Iraq suggests that it's been part of the long-term plan anyway. I just hope that it's not a unilateral effort. Europe REALLY needs to get on board with our efforts to contain rogue, terrorist-supporting nations in the Middle East.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) If we work hard and show ourselves to be an honest broker and more interested in peace than who's right or wrong in the immediate moment, we can radically change the viewpoint of many governments and people in the mideast and radically change the direction that the mideast seems to be headed towards. I seriously doubt that. We've been down this road before and the fundamentalist Islamic nutcases aren't going to "change their viewpoints." It's unfortunate, but it's the reality. Agreed with the first part, but the actions of the Islamafascists in Iran and Syria are not "our responsibility." We should do what we can to stabilize the region, but we can't force the Israelis and militant Muslims to peacefully coexist.