WCSox

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:51 PM) What other locations were considered for Israel? IIRC, Greenland was one of them. I can't remember the others. Germany would've been the most appropriate, IMO. This hard-liner moron in Iran seems to be trying really hard to bait Israel into a war. He'll be sorry after the Israeli air force turns Tehran into a parking lot. The people of Iran will be even sorrier. :headshake

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 01:16 AM) B.B.B.B.B...BUT ITS BUSH'S FAULT THE PARISHES ARE BANKRUPT AND NOBODY'S GETTING ANY HELP DOWN THERE!!! :rolly To be fair, all three levels of government (federal, state, and local) were equally unprepared to deal with this mess. All of the political finger-pointing is ridiculous. I'm not sure if Blanco's an idiot, but this news suggests that she may be corrupt as hell.

QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) Irony. Intentional irony, actually. Taveras isn't the ideal candidate, but for a manager who puts so much emphasis on "manufacturing" runs, a good defensive CF with speed would be a good person to platoon with Anderson.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 09:48 AM) That said, I think they'll either sign him to an extension fairly soon or trade him. I do not think they'll let this hang over their heads all season, but who knows. I think that they'd rather keep him (unless he reverts back to his NYY stats), but that's JMO. I can never tell what KW's going to do next, but I have faith in him. BTW, it's nice to know that there are some mature posters here that can disagree with me without turning it into a game of "pile-on" with their high school buddies.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 09:40 AM) Stats don't necessarily mean the best team mates or the best ballplayers for this team. In addition I tend to like to see people play, I think I can judge for myself whether somebody is good or not. Personally I think we have a bunch of stat geeks around here they are so obsessed with stats it clouds there judgement before they actually see players for themselves ( in person) or on TV. Everyone rushes to the stat sheet. Just don't think baseball is played like that. Gee, who would those people be? According to the stat geeks, Carlos Lee is worth a lot more than Podsednik. Couldn't have said it better myself...

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 09:29 AM) The point, which I will reiterate because you are unable to grasp it, is if Contreras indicates an unwillingness to sign an extension, the Sox will move him rather than lose him for nothing. I'm not sure about that. Not sure why KW wouldn't want six legitimate starting pitchers, even if he has to lose one of them at the end of the season and gets nothing in return. If I were KW, I'd be more concerned about winning than the future. At the very least, I'd wait until July to make the deal. The Sox's needs for '06 will be more clear at that point. But I wouldn't be opposed to dealing Contreras if KW could get a legitimate #2 hitter who could play CF and steal 30+ bases (I'm not talking about Taveras), another left-hander in the 'pen, and a good long-reliever who could close if Jenks doesn't pan out (e.g., Chad Qualls, Brendan Donnelly, etc.). In other words, it'd take a lot to move Contreras, but he could help fill some gaps if the right players would be available.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) This "proven postseason commodity" stuff is pure crap. Podsednik never played in the postseason either and did very well. If you would honestly rather have Uribe over Tejada because Uribe put up good numbers in the postseason and is therefore a "proven postseason commodity," you're nuts. That, we can agree on. I can only think of two reasons to keep Uribe over Tejada: (1) It'll cost too much to trade for Tejada or (2) Tejada might be a prima donna (I have no idea if he is or isn't).

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 08:43 AM) No, it's only 30 pages, and I'm sure that I skipped a few posts. However, it doesn't make it any better. If you don't want to be a magnet for controversy, then be a better poster ™ and please refrain from fanning the flames. That's all I'm trying to say. That's fair, but blame needs to be assigned elsewhere as well. Don't single me out.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 08:38 AM) WCSox, Oregon? And, I'll add, where did you get so smart to be able to talk down to everyone? Your assignment of blame tells me that you didn't read the thread very thoroughly.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 08:12 PM) Using your own words (although its not two sentences): You're mastery of the English language is very impressive.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 08:19 AM) I will say he isnt as great as he is made out to be. He gets the job done and gets too much airtime when he makes a good play. I agree that he's overrated, just like everyone else in the eye of the NY media. That doesn't mean that he's not a great defensive player, though. He's at least as good as Uribe (I'd argue a little better) with a much better bat and more clutch plays in the post-season.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 05:32 PM) You keep saying that Taveras could hit 9th where Anderson would be hitting. But because of his speed and bunting ability he would bat second in Ozzie's world, regardless of what you say. And his low OBP would hurt there. And you know this because Ozzie told you so? :rolly There's no reason that Taveras couldn't hit 9th.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 10:44 PM) How many games are theSox playing at Minute Maid Park next year? Tell me exactly how Minute Maid Park is such an asset hitters who have no power to LF? I never advocated trading Contreras for Taveras straight-up, smarty-pants. And, by definition, Taveras is a "proven .291 hitter." He did it over the course of a full season, didn't he? I'm not saying that he'll definitely do it again, but he certainly did "prove" that he can do it. Sorry, but you're dead wrong on that one, buddy. On the other hand, Anderson hasn't "proven" anything, other than that he's able to hit .176 in 34 at-bats. I expect Anderson to be the better player over the long run, but he may put up a Crede-like OBP next year. Oh, and your use of the word "f***" makes you sound really intelligent and goes a long way towards strengthening your argument. :headshake

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 08:00 PM) He is? So, you're saying that Jeter isn't a good defensive SS? Do you even watch baseball??

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) Sort of like the one Taveras put up outside of Minute Maid Park? Wow, Taveras must be a hell of a hitter at home then. How about this: Taveras plays the home games and Anderson plays the road games.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) What dont you people understand that when you skip AAA completely and its your rookie season in the majors you arent going to be amazing. Most players on the fast-track to the majors don't even go to AAA. Triple A is where most of the career minor-leaguers go.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 05:10 PM) If Taveras truly has .360+ OBP potential in him, I wouldn't mind having him regardless of his lack of extra base hits. His defense and arm in center field adds a lot to his value. I just wouldn't want the current .325 OBP Taveras. And you might end up with a .290 OBP Brian Anderson for all you know. It's just nice to have another option when you have an unknown. At the very least, Taveras could hit 9th (where Anderson would be hitting). It's almost a moot point talking about this, as Houston doesn't have much incentive to trade him anyway.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 03:00 PM) I'm sick of a bunch of people throwing out a few stats to make there case. I got news for people, you can throw stats out for whatever the f*** case you want. There is no definitive stats unless your talking about a superstar. You are correct. If stats meant everything, Billy Beane would've won multiple WS titles by now. Beane is a stathead, who relies more on crunching numbers through spreadsheets than listening to scouts who actually watch the players play. By his logic, Derek Jeter is overpaid by at least $10 million/year because his OPS isn't as high as Tejada's or A-Rod's. Nevermind the fact that that Jeter is a stellar defensive SS and one of the best clutch players in MLB. In fact, Jeter made an incredible throw in the playoffs that kept Beane's team out of the WS four years ago. I'm so sick and tired of hearing players judged on OPS alone. Look at the change that KW made in LF last year: Carlos Lee - career OPS: .825 Scott Podsednik - career OPS: .730 Now, why would Kenny deal away a consistent, .300/30 HR hitter like Lee for a guy who didn't hit a single regular-season HR in '05? Becuase Pods was almost a lock to steal 50-70 bases. Pods might not drive in a lot of runs, but he certainly helps MANUFACTURE runs. While Willie Taveras' OPS isn't terribly impressive, his base-stealing and defensive skills certainly are. And, IIRC, defense and manufacturing runs are two of the three cornerstones of "Ozzieball." If he could be acquired for a relatively low price, he'd be worth it. He fits right in with Ozzie's style of play. Platooning Taveras and Anderson with, say, at 2:1 ratio of playing time would (1) give the Sox another threat on the bases and greater ability to manufacture runs and (2) take some pressure off of Anderson. If Anderson pans out as planned, Taveras could be shipped off somewhere at little cost. If Anderson turns out to be a bust, the Sox have another option in Taveras.

QUOTE(CrimsonWeltall @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:58 PM) Murtha's proposal would withdraw troops at the earliest practicable date and would keep marines in the region (just not in Iraq). You act like he proposed that every soldier be put on a boat and sent back to the US the next day. Murtha said nothing about waiting until the time was right to remove the troops: "The U.S. cannot accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring them home." The "bring them home" part was later spun by his staff to mean "we'll put them somewhere else in the Middle East." Murtha never said anything about keeping the troops somewhere nearby in the region. And even if he did propose that, it'd be a stupid idea because the troops can't really fight the terrorists within Iraq if they're not there anymore. Whatever you think of the war, this type of rhetoric is irresponsible. Pushing to yank the troops out now while Iraq's military is in its infancy would do nothing but destabilize the region.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) But your argument is that Willy Taveras is a "proven player" because of his one good season (2005). Shingo was also good for only one season (2004). Couldn't Taveras very well suck in 2006 just like Shingo did in 2005? Sure, but Taveras isn't at the tail end of his career. The chance of his skills declining quickly is significantly less. It's been real fun, guys, but you're not going to change my mind. Have a Happy New Year's Eve.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:52 PM) Yep, the Sox traded Shingo (a proven player because of his 2004 season just like Willy Taveras) because they thought that the unproven player Bobby Jenks would be better. Funny how that works out, huh? They traded Shingo after only 31 appearances and a disasterous 5.91 ERA. And, IIRC, Hermanson was still the closer at that point. Comparing Shingo's performance to Taveras' is just silly.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) At stanford they use metal bats because it is college, so the difference is huge from metal to wood. He was injured so he can't play, after he came back he went almost straight to AAA after a whopping 29 games in rookie, A, and AA ball. I would defenantly consider that being rushed. That's a weak excuse. MANY players go through four or five years of college without needing an additional four years to adjust to using wooden bats. QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:49 PM) They traded takatsu because they believed he could do it. They traded Takatsu because he was getting shelled.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) So the Sox wouldn't be trying to win in 2007 because Anderson would surely be ready by then wouldn't he? Basically what you are saying is you shouldn't rely on guys without major league track records if you are trying to win. Seems to me the White Sox won a World Series with a closer who never pitched higher than AA 3 months before the World Series. If given the choice, yes, you should. Do you think that they would've gone with Jenks had Hermanson not had back problems?

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) Now tell me that he wasn't rushed Batting Statistics Order Baseball Data Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP Avg Obp Slg Ops 2000 Azl White Sox Ariz 21 Chw Rk 7 29 3 12 4 0 0 8 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 .414 .552 1032 2000 Winston-Salem Caro 21 Chw A 14 52 7 15 3 0 2 7 0 0 6 9 2 0 0 1 0 .288 .462 832 2000 Birmingham Sou 21 Chw AA 6 22 3 5 0 1 0 3 0 0 3 8 0 0 0 1 1 .227 .318 618 2002 Winston-Salem Caro 23 Chw A 2 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .667 .000 667 2002 Charlotte IL 23 Chw AAA 117 438 62 119 35 2 20 59 2 4 49 139 4 2 0 2 11 .272 .349 .498 847 2002 Chi White Sox AL 23 Chw MLB 16 36 5 8 0 0 2 5 0 0 1 14 0 0 0 0 0 .222 .243 .389 632 2003 Charlotte IL 24 Chw AAA 114 435 62 110 20 2 13 53 2 4 27 103 8 1 0 2 14 .253 .307 .398 705 2003 Chi White Sox AL 24 Chw MLB 16 49 5 9 1 0 1 5 0 1 5 18 0 0 0 3 0 .184 .246 .265 511 2004 Charlotte IL 25 Chw AAA 82 301 44 80 21 0 16 48 4 3 30 68 2 1 0 3 8 .266 .333 .495 828 2004 Chi White Sox AL 25 Chw MLB 63 201 26 35 4 1 9 20 1 0 19 57 1 1 1 0 4 .174 .249 .338 587 2005 Charlotte IL 26 Chw AAA 134 494 69 130 20 0 29 67 6 4 50 143 .263 .335 .480 815 2005 Chi White Sox AL 26 Chw MLB 7 12 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 .417 .417 .583 1000 What I see there is Borchard playing minor-league ball since 2000. And that's after he left Stanford. Did he not play at Stanford? And wasn't he injured in 2001? That's not anybody's fault. Sorry, but I don't agree that he was rushed. Not every player goes straight to the minors and spends 4 or 5 years developing there before hitting the Big Show.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) Contreras is overpaying. You don't give up a #1 pitcher for a contingency plan and a few other pieces. I never said that they should. QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:39 PM) Well, Mackowiak can play some center field. And I thought you wanted Taveras as a starter over Anderson, not a backup plan. I do. Or is there some reason to rush Anderson? Let Taveras start for a year and then think about Anderson as your long-term plan.