Lillian

The Cardinals need a replacement for the injured Furcal, who will miss the entire season, in the last year of his contract. Alexei Ramirez has a fairly expensive contract, and the Sox have Carlos Sanchez as a possible replacement. 10 of the Cardinals top 15 prospects are RHP. If the Sox could land one of the better ones, in exchange for Ramirez, and clear some salary for a potential signing of a big left handed bat(Grady Sizemore in June), would that make sense?

Is there any TV coverage? There isn't any on MLB.COM

Personalities are great, and fun for the fans, but I remember that Swisher sometimes made me cringe, as a fan. The blow up doll, the shaving cream pies, Captain Morgan poses with Cabrera, the elaborate High Fives, the looking up in the sky for "Granny," and that whole "Mr. Cool" personna, he always seemed to be portraying, was just a bit too much. I can imagine how it would have been even worse in the clubhouse. We probably never saw half of it. Everyone has their own perception of such things, but for me personally, he was too much, and impressed me as being "Bush League".

Yes, I acknowledged that Sizemore is not expected to be ready to play until around June. I also stated, in an earlier post, that since the Sox don't play the Tigers until just before the All Star break, they might be able to wait for him. The point of this latest post was to simply refer to the article which reaffirms the fact that the Sox still need another, middle of the order, left handed bat. When players are openly discussing it, it is at the least, a perceived short coming. They may qualify their remarks, and offer rationalizations, but it is obviously on their minds, and well it should be. The article states precisely what I have been arguing; That the Tigers, as well as the rest of the Central Division, have a lot of tough right handed pitchers.

Apparently, even a few of the Sox players are as concerned about the lack of left handed hitters on their roster, as some of us are: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...ws&c_id=cws Sizemore could really help.

Since the Sox don't play the Tigers until just before the All Star break, perhaps they could wait until then to find that left handed, middle of the order bat. Sizemore would be ideal, if he were anywhere near as productive as he was when he was in his mid twenties. He was especially good against RHP. Voila!!!

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 31, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) They competed last year with Viciedo not hitting RHP. Wanting to compete does not necessitate abandoning all young players who have weaknesses. Not on this team, and not on any other. You know, if this roster had more good hitters, it would be a lot easier to hide Viciedo's production vs. RHP. Unfortunately, they don't. I think that the sox have to start somewhere, and getting that left handed bat is as good a place as any. So then, the question is; whom would that left handed bat replace? There is no room anywhere else, is there? He wouldn't replace Konerko, and we couldn't replace Dunn, because no one would take him, Rios is one of the bright spots, centerfield in not a likely place to look for an impact left handed bat, and left handed hitting third basemen are rare. So, it comes down to LF. Another good thing about my scenario is that you could still keep and play Viciedo, and let him learn to hit RHP, little by little. I suggested that he could get some experience spelling Konerko ocassionally. Of course, some on this site seem perfectly willing to go into the season with the roster just the way it is. I just don't think that his offense can compete with Detroit, and I don't expect them to fair much better against the Tigers in head to head competitition than they did last season. So, I'm dreaming about solutions, OK?

This all goes back to the basic question; "Is this team interested in trying to compete for the Central Division crown this season?" If they are, then they better not rely on Viciedo suddently learning to hit RHP. Moreover, they better not try to beat the Tigers RH pitchers with the current lineup. I don't care if they decide to rebuild, but I wonder why they resigned Peavy, if that is the plan.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Jan 31, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) Viciedo's line against RHP two years ago in Charlotte was .305/.357/.501 in 373 PAs. Better than he hit against LHP that season. He's not going to be as bad against RHP as his major league split suggests. Yes, but at the Big League level, pitchers have discovered that he can't lay off the hard breaking balls away. I'm not saying that he can't make the adjustment, but so far it is clear that he has not. He's a monster vs. LHP, where that pitch is not a factor.

As good as Ethier is vs. RHP, he is that bad vs. LHP. He's awful, like 100 points lower batting average. It's an openly stated, big concern of the Dodgers. I understand that they are rumored to be interested in moving him, and his contract, in order to acquire a true center fielder, who could lead off. If they could find a taker for Ethier, they apparently would like to sign Bourn, as I mentioned. I just don't understand what is wrong with maximizing the talents of two players, given the right price, if you can have them put up combined numbers like the ones they accomplished last season, from a hypothetical platoon. We aren't just talking about decent numbers. We're talking about the best offensive numbers that this current roster could be expected to get from any of the existing players. Who on this roster is going to hit .331 with a approximate .400 OBP, and still provide respectable Slugging numbers? The answer is no one. That platoon instantly becomes our #3 hitter, while adding that badly needed left handed bat vs. RHP. You can say that it is unrealistic to think that the Dodgers would make the trade, or that the Sox would spend the money. But I am not convinced that it wouldn't be a good idea, if they could pull it off. If Viciedo could get enough at bats vs. RHP, while spelling Konerko, he could demonstrate his ability to hit righties, and eventually become a full time player. With both Dunn and Konerko likely gone in the next couple of years, Viciedo would have a spot on the roster. But who in the meantime thinks that he is going to be good enough vs. RHP, to bat in the middle of the order? You have to think about the "3 year board". This organization does not have a single impact left handed bat anywhere on that horizon. The first candidate would be Keo Barnum, and he just finished high school. Ethier could be a solid offensive contributor, from the left side for almost all 5 remaining years of his contract. Dunn will hopefully be gone after next season, and the Sox will likely be looking for at least one more left handed bat to replace him. Ethier would have significant value to this team for the next several seasons.

I appreciate all of your comments on this subject, but what about the basic question of acquiring the LH bat, and the fact that Ethier is terrible vs. LHP? This suggestion of platooning Viciedo and Ethier is not just a matter of getting Viciedo's bat out of the lineup vs. RHP.

Look, we can assume that Viciedo will soon learn to hit RH pitching, and that may be. However, Ethier is a case in point. He still hasn't learned to hit LH pitching, and he's a 31 year old veteran. I just think that this is a viable solution to a glaring offensive deficiency on the Sox roster. You platoon two corner outfielders, maximizing their strengths, you get the left handed presence you need, you fill the hole in the middle of the lineup, and you do so without having to give up anyone whose absence would create another hole. Again, the key would be to move some salary, and Thornton is the best candidate for that. I think that Veal would be a great LOOGY, and the Sox certainly have plenty of LH arms. Didn't the Dodgers express interest in acqiring a LH reliever?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 31, 2013 -> 07:11 AM) pretty sure Hahn already stated that Viciedo will not be platooning under any circumstances Well, maybe he ought to rethink that. Here are Viciedo's stats versus RHP last year: AVG .225 OBP .271 SLG .380

To those who might reject this idea out of hand, take a closer look. If you acknowledge that the Sox need a higher OBP, a left handed middle of the order bat, and that there are few options available, then consider that they could accomplish all of those goals, and perhaps do so without giving up anything off the MLB roster, which they can not really afford to do, with the exception of trading Thornton If the Dodgers took Thornton, and his $5.5 million 2013 salary, plus that $1 million buy out at the end of the season, it might make Ethier's salary affordable Ethier's contract is still the biggest question, regarding this suggestion. I think it may be worth it, but that is arguable, of course.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 31, 2013 -> 06:24 AM) That would be one expensive platoon. Yes, you're right, and I acknowledged that. However, he might be available without having to give up anything off the roster. The Dodgers would like to acquire Bourn to play CF, and they have Alex Castellanos waiting in the wings. Here are the combined 2012 stats of an Ethier/Viciedo platoon: AVG .331 OBP .396 35 doubles 25 homers 83 RBI's in 458 total at bats. That production might be worth the combined salaries of those two players. We don't have a player on the roster who came anywhere close to those numbers. You could simply plug in those numbers in the #3 hole and you have a pretty potent offense. Here's the lineup: De Aza Keppinger Ethier/Viciedo Konerko Dunn Rios Ramirez Flowers Beckham Viciedo is young enough that it wouldn't hurt him to platoon for a couple of seasons. Moreover, he could probably get some at bats spelling Konerko occasionally. Paulie will likely need some rest. That would give Viciedo a few at bats versus RHP.

This article suggests that Ethier might be available: http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/art..._la&c_id=la I don't know what it would take, and that contract is pretty expensive, but he is the kind of left handed #3 hitter who could really help versus RHP. His split stats are among the most dramatically different of all the good hitters in the game. He really hits RHP well, and is terrible vs. LHP. If Viciedo were not traded, he would make a great platoon with Ethier in LF. I suggested that once, some time ago, in another thread.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jan 30, 2013 -> 11:29 PM) I do agree a middle of the order lefty impact bat would be nice, but really, is ONE more lefty in the lineup really gonna make that much of a difference? Even if it was Hamilton he's still one guy. Paulie, Rios, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez and Keppinger are all still righties, against all those other righty pitchers in the Central. s*** if Robin is gonna be pitching this pipe dream of players striking out less and making more contact from players who strike out a lot and don't put the ball into play, why not just try and preach hitting righties better too? All three have an equally low chance of happening based on the personnel. You may be on to something. The Sox could reap significant benefits by concentrating on a better approach against the right handed starters, who dominated most of their lineup. I hope that they follow that suggestion, and that the Sox hitters respond. Do you have any particular suggestions? I like the idea of thinking up the middle versus hard throwing right handers like Verlander and Scherzer. Or even better, why not think taking the fast ball to the opposite field? That allows the hitter more time to commit, and if he is offered an offspeed pitch, he won't be out in front, as he would be if he were anticipating the fast ball. By simply not trying to pull ever pitch, our existing lineup might have a better chance at success.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 08:16 AM) Well then it's even more impressive that they finished over .500 against the division last year. Yes, but the Sox faired very badly versus both the Royals and the Tigers. And they had A. J.'s left handed bat.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 29, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) What good left handed middle of the order bat is available? What are you going to give up? Where are you going to put him? Markakis doesn't count because the Orioles are not going to move him. I don't propose to have the solution. It might be constructive to start by identifying the problem. Do you agree that the absence of another left handed impact bat is the highest priority? If you agree, then you tell us. How can the Sox acquire such a hitter?

You can talk about contact vs. power, increasing OBP, or any other nuance of hitting. The Sox play almost half of their games against their division rivals, and they are not built to beat those teams. I’ve discussed how well the Detroit starters handled right handed hitters last year. The simple, unavoidable truth is that the rosters of Chicago’s A. L. Central opponents are comprised almost entirely of right handed starting pitchers. The two notable exceptions being Bruce Chen and Scott Diamond, both of whom were actually more effective against right handed hitters last year. This is just one more reason that should emphasize the need for the Sox to add a middle of the order left handed bat.

Some of you have suggested that the sample size of the Sox hitters versus the Tiger pitchers is too small. Here are their entire season's split stats for their starters last year: Scherzer VS RHP AVG .201 OBP .244 SLG .343 VS. LHB .292 .366 .465 D. Fister VS RHP AVG .220 OBP.297 SLG .310 VS LHB .270 .300 .434 Porcello VS RHP AVG .294 OBP .322 SLG .403 VS LHB .325 .381 .503 Sanchez VS RHP AVG .291OBP .324 SLG .473 VS LHB .243 .299 .347 Verlander VS RHP AVG .222OBP .278SLG .315 VS LHB .213 .264 .344 Except for Verlander, against whom the Sox have actually faired pretty well in recent years, the other RHP have been much better vs. right handed hitters. Sanchez only pitched part of the season with Detroit, and is new to the A. L. However, his numbers were better vs. LH batters. The data seems to support the idea that a predominantly right handed line up is not likely to fair well against Tiger starters.

I don't know how that thread got revived. I didn't post anything on it today. It's a mystery. Sorry.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Apr 18, 2012 -> 05:13 AM) I keep seeing posts recommending benching this guy, and calling up that guy, and platooning these guys. I'm as frustrated as the next guy with the way this team is hitting (or not hitting). But platooning Morel and McPherson or Dunn and Lillibridge or Fat Guy #1 and Skinny Guy #3 is not going to happen. Morel should be given a chance but lower in the lineup. Beckham might need a AAA stint. Dunn needs to just start hitting the damn ball, I don't care if it's mental or physical or spiritual. He's gotta get his s*** together. Someone else mentioned that benching the likes of Rios and Dunn does nothing, and I agree. There is absolutely zero chance anyone will trade for either of them if they spend 50% of their time warming a corner of the bench. There will at least be a slight chance if they play most of the time and actually start hitting the ball a bit. I'm officially concerned about this season now, and I think that's only because I had higher hopes than a lot of people. But I keep telling myself that it's been 10 games. 152 more to go. I just hope in a month we're not saying the same things about the hitting on this team. Because by then it will most likely be very concerning.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Jan 20, 2013 -> 12:33 PM) Quite a large conclusion to jump to working with small sample sizes. Using a similarly small sample, it seems Hahn has already signed that left-handed, middle of the order, "Tiger Slayer". In 35 career games, his line against the Tigers is .329/.380/.562. A .941 OPS. And he didn't cost much more than the league minimum! Career numbers are not relevant. However, the last couple of seasons, provide some indication of how well a given hitter, who has played a full season vs a division rival, might be expected to perform.

Of course, this isn't going to be easy. However, getting a left handed hitter, and one who can hit the Tiger's starting RHP has to be the goal. The Sox have no chance to compete with Detroit with the kind of offensive numbers they put up last year. No, I wouldn't trade Sale for Markakis, but I'd consider giving up something significant to get someone of his caliber.