Lillian

Not being in that clubhouse, we have no way of knowing, however A. J. has always seemed to me to be the "heart and soul" of the team. He's a fierce competitor, and a pretty good "clutch" player. I wonder who would replace that intangible.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 24, 2012 -> 09:22 AM) I said this somewhere before, but the Rockettes have a couple of guys who can play third AND hit, and they are desperate for pitching. Nelson and LeMehieu (sp). Pacheco, too, but he would be more expensive. I see that the Rockies just acquired a top third base prospect, so perhaps they would move one of the guys you suggested: http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/artic...ol&c_id=col Or, maybe they acquired Wheeler so that they could deal him to us. How's that for wishful thinking? He's the best fit, because he's left handed and appears to have good power. The Rockies need pitching. Would they want Floyd and Thornton? Floyd's curve ball doesn't profile well in the mile high air, but Thornton's heater might work for them.

If your assessment of Viciedo's defensive potential is correct, then I agree that he shouldn't be moved to 3RD, which means that I would prefer that they consider trading him. However, I'm not convinced that he couldn't become an adequate third baseman. He certainly has the arm, and he did become a pretty decent outfielder, through hard work and lots of practice. Don't you think that he has the athletic ability to improve significantly?

The more I think about it, and the longer the search continues for both a third baseman, and an impact left handed bat, the more sense it makes to move Viciedo back to 3RD, or trade him. This organization has a lot of right handed hitting, outfield talent, and it's much easier to find an impact bat to play LF, than it is to play 3RD. De Aza is the only current Sox outfielder who bats left handed, and he isn't a middle of the order hitter. Thompson and Hawkins are the only outfielders on the list of Sox top prospects, and they both also hit from the right side. The Sox desperately need a left handed hitter now, and in the future.

Here are a few possibilities for players who could become available if their team signs Hamilton: San Francisco Giants 3-1 Angel Pagan (switch hitter) Atlanta Braves 5-1 Martin Prado (right handed) Texas Rangers 5-1 Philadelphia Phillies 7-1 Domonic Brown (left handed) New York Yankees 9-1 Curtis Granderson (left handed) Chicago Cubs 9-1 Alfonso Soriano (RH) Boston Red Sox 9-1 Jacoby Ellsbury (left handed) Pittsburgh Pirates 10-1 Travis Snider (left handed) Garret Jones (LH) Toronto Blue Jays 10-1 (I think the Jays have spent their money, and then some) Los Angeles Dodgers 15-1 Andre Ethier (left handed) Carl Crawford (LH) I'm sure that I've missed some, but there isn't much on that list. They are either right handed, or not middle of the order bats. I agree with "2nd City" that Granderson is the only impact, left handed bat, and I'm not sure I'd want that contract and his inconsistency.

Following up on a point I made in my last post, it's fun to speculate about which players might become available from the respective candidates to sign Hamilton. Almost any team with that kind of money, and chance to win, is going to have talent that may have to be jettisoned, in order to make room for Hamilton and his salary. This article gives the Vegas odds makers' choices for likely teams: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-b...ltons-next-team Here is the list: San Francisco Giants 3-1 Atlanta Braves 5-1 Texas Rangers 5-1 Philadelphia Phillies 7-1 New York Yankees 9-1 Chicago Cubs 9-1 Boston Red Sox 9-1 Pittsburgh Pirates 10-1 Toronto Blue Jays 10-1 Los Angeles Dodgers 15-1 Which left handed bats do you think might become available, from the respective teams on that list, if Hamilton should sign there?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2012 -> 03:39 AM) Let's amend my initial "$50" to "$25." He's going to get at least 5 years. You have alluded to it in the $100/5 deal. We will agree on that. I, too, believe that, due to age and prior history, he is going to struggle to get a 7 year deal, but that I think you could see an extremely unique sort of contract to which he is negotiated. But, $20 mill a year? That's a hometown discount number. Unless you have insider knowledge with regards to him wanting to play with the White Sox, there's no way he's going to take $20 mill a year. He's going to take the $25 mill that is offered to him. The absolute worst guaranteed money I see to him is $125 million. Unless something drastic comes out between this point and Christmas, he's going to get a monstrosity of a contract that would be horrendous to the entirety of the White Sox francise. Trivia question, with regards to this thread - how many $100+ million contracts have the White Sox ever signed with a baseball player? You have....(looks at fake watch, then looks at real clock)......5 years to tell me. You're probably correct on all points. However, it's going to be pretty difficult to compete with the Tigers, if the Sox don't spend the money. In the last couple of years, while Detroit keeps adding big names, we are letting guys go. Last year the Sox subtracted Buerhle and Quentin, this year it will be A. J. and Youkilis. Without a great farm system, this is not exactly a strategy for success. Oh well, maybe the Sox can take the scraps left after Hamilton signs his big contract. He will most likely sign with a big money team, and whomever he replaces will probably be on the trading block. Let's hope that he's a left handed hitter, and that the Sox could take him off the hands of whichever G.M. needs to dump him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) They can offer Hamilton that, but he'd get a contract worth anywhere between $50-75 million more than that Perhaps, but that would be what Hamilton has been asking, which is $175 Million for 7 years. It doesn't appear that any GM has been willing to give him that. He may not have any takers at that price. We'll see, soon enough I suspect.

The Sox will need at least a couple of middle of the order hitters after Konerko is gone next year, and then Dunn the year after. There are no big impact left handed bats waiting in the minors. Why not offer Hamilton 5 years, at $20 million per year, for a total of $100 million? Sure, the payroll would be higher for two years, until Konerko and Dunn are gone, along with their contracts, but at least the lineup would be competitive with the Tigers. Move Viciedo to 3RD, put Hamilton in his spot in Left, and call it an off season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) Gonzales mentions Michael Young at 3B if the Sox can get some salary relief. Basically there is no chance at Headley. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11...ter-gm-meetings That still wouldn't solve the problem of filling the need for a middle of the order left handed bat. Why not trade Floyd, Thornton and another piece, if necessary, for Ethier? The Dodgers are looking for a right handed starter, and a left handed reliever. That would be a constructive salary dump for the Sox, as neither Floyd nor Thornton should be on this roster, in the first place. That would still leave one hole, and the Sox should consider spending some money on a top of the rotation right handed starter, which Floyd is not. Ethier could play LF, or switch with Rios. Ethier, de Aza and Rios would make a pretty good outfield. I still like the idea of moving Viciedo back to 3B. He has the hands, and the arm to play there. Line up: de Aza Sanchez or Beckham, if he isn't traded, or can finally start to hit. Rios Ethier Konerko Dunn Viciedo Ramirez Flowers

With all of these additions, Toronto is going to have a few players that need to be moved. Is there anyone, now expendable, who appeals to you guys? What about their young stolen base phenom, Gose?

QUOTE (forrestg @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 02:15 AM) I wish we had getz back not a great player but is a 250-275 left hitter adequate 2nd base but wouldn't let him bunt too much seems to let his fingers get in the way. Switch Beckham back to third where he seems to have attain a better avg It seems highly doubtful that Beckham's playing 3RD would correlate to his having a higher average. It probably had nothing to do with his hitting better, and was just coincidental. If anything, he should be happier and more relaxed, now that he seems to have found a position at which he is very comfortable. I'm afraid his discomfort is at the plate!!

Although we can't know exactly what Hahn's first significant move will be, we should be confident that he will look for one or more left handed bats, and some badly needed higher on base production. If we were to go into next season with the current roster, the OBP could be horrible. The lower half of the Sox could conceivably look like this: Viciedo Ramirez Flowers Beckham ? Third Baseman ? They could all have sub .300 On Base Percentages, and they could all be right handed. Moreover, the top of the order isn't exactly dynamite either. I suspect that Hahn will address this glaring weakness. If he doesn't, I don't see how this team will compete with the Tigers, unless they hold the opposition to about 3 runs per game, and we know that isn't going to happen. Instead of contemplating spending $20 - $25 million per year, for up to 7 years, on Hamilton, I'd rather see them spend less on perhaps 2 or 3 players. Why not fill the hole at third, find one impact, middle of the order left handed bat, and one right handed top of the rotation starter, who is perhaps nearing free agency and would not have to be signed to a long term deal? In order to accomplish such goals and make room on the roster, as well as the payroll, I would trade Thornton, Floyd, Beckham and maybe Viciedo, depending upon the return for him. I'd plug Carlos Sanchez into Beckham's place at second base. I'd give sanchez a chance, but not a very long leash. He is awfully young, and it may be too early to expect him to play in the Big Leagues. If he were not ready, a good fielding second baseman would be one of the easiest holes to fill.

Putting Pagan and de Aza in the outfield, and either moving Viciedo to 3RD, or trading him for a third baseman, makes some sense. Those two would give the Sox a good top of the order, with speed and decent OBP. Pagan is a switch hitter, and could either lead off or bat second. Then you can go with Rios and Konerko, before hitting Dunn 5TH, which should be the lowest in the order that should ever see his .200 batting average. The line up could then see Viciedo, Ramirez, Flowers and Beckham at the bottom half. It's still too heavily weighted with right handed hitters, but it's better than we had last year.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 13, 2012 -> 03:28 AM) There seems to be a trend of thought here on SoxTalk that he is 'every other year' player. The "every other year" label is not justified. His poor year in 2011 is very easily explained by that horrible stance he adopted. I remember painfully watching him, game after game, and thinking that no one could hit with a stance like that. Once he changed it, he instantly started to hit. I guess maybe J. Manto deserves a lot of the credit. It is inconceivable to me that Rios would go back to the mechanical approach he used in 2011, or even tinker with his current stance. He looks so much better at the plate. Another point that many seem to forget is that he was even better last year than his numbers. As good as he was, he hit into a lot of bad luck. He probably had more "hang with 'ems" than anyone on the team. He seemed to hit the ball as consistently hard as any hitter I can remember in a Sox uniform, since Frank Thomas' good years. Please note that I said "since" Thomas, not as good as Thomas. He should have been the # 3 hitter last year, and it is arguable that he would have been even better hitting in that spot, with more protection. I know that he didn't perform well there in the few at bats he had in that spot, but the sample size was far too small. One final point, is that Rios is a genuine 5 tool player, and we don't have anyone else who even remotely fits that description.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) I doubt Headley becomes a bust, but there is a very high chance that you overpay for him. You just have to hope the players you give up fizzle out like prospects often do. Then you have to not give Headley a s*** ton of money Although he would be a more than serviceable solution to fill the hole at third base, he is not the big left handed bat the Sox need. Moreover, he is not worth committing big money. The Sox would still need to look elsewhere for the sorely needed left handed, middle of the order bat. I hope that Hahn does not plan to go into next season with Dunn's .200 batting average anywhere in the middle of the order.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2012 -> 07:23 PM) Honestly any conversation with the White Sox and Hamilton is a waste of breath. The Sox are up against their payroll as is, and they aren't about to unload enough payroll guys to bring in a guy like Hamilton. Even if the Sox had the money, the guy is the wrong side of 30, expensive, and an ex-hardcore drug user. There is nothing about Josh Hamilton that makes him a remotely realistic topic of conversation for Sox fans. After reading all of the posts, and thinking more about it, I have to agree with you. So, whom should the Sox go after? I see that it has been speculated it would take 4 years, and $40 million to resign Headley. If that is the case, would you like to see the Sox trade and extend him?

If we put this discussion about Hamilton in the proper perspective, the larger point continues to be that the Sox desperately need a potent, high OBP, left handed bat. Not only is the line up weighted too heavily toward right handed hitters, but there isn't a single left handed threat that would force an opposing manager to go the pen for a left hander. Does anyone seriously believe that an opposing manager is going to remove a right handed pitcher, just to face Adam Dunn, much less de Aza? There are far more right handed starters and relievers, than there are southpaws, and the Sox don't have a threat to exploit it. It's not only important in any given game, but in a typical 3 game series, it is advantageous to "burn" through the opposing team's pen, early in the series. So the question is; "Whom do the Sox go after"? Is it Chase Headley, Josh Hamilton, or someone else? You can forget about Hahn trying to acquire a right handed hitter. I'm confident that is not going to happen. If he gets anyone, it will be a solid left handed hitter. Trading Viciedo, Floyd, Thornton and even Beckham would all be worth the price, if it gets this team the bat it needs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 11, 2012 -> 10:29 AM) The thing that would scare me is the team that really knows him best, and throws money around like it's nothing, is only willing to go 3 years. I haven't looked, but perhaps the Rangers already have too much money committed to other long term contracts.

Most “big market” teams have a high priced star offensive player. The Sox will almost certainly have to find one after Konerko, Rios and Dunn are gone. Hamilton, signed to a long term deal, could be that guy. Hamilton will be 32 this season. He should have 5 good years left, at least. If you add the possibility of him DH’ing perhaps he has 7 or 8 years. An addition of Hamilton would be a "no brainer" for the next couple of years. Of course, it's the long term that gives any GM pause. $25 million per year for the next 5 years is reasonable. He should still be worth close to half of that in years 7 and 8. $150 million for 7 years should be acceptable, if he would take it. However, the question is; whether or not there would be room on the payroll for such an addition. The long term commitment is the biggest concern. In that regard, the Sox are in the enviable position of having almost no money committed past 2014. The only two players under contract for 2015 are Ramirez and Danks: Alexei Ramirez 13:$7M, 14:$9.5M, 15:$10M, 16:$10M club option ($1M buyout) John Danks 13:$14.25M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.25M, 16:$14.25M If you look at the 3 year "board", and try to imagine whom management is anticipating might be on the roster, you could project something like this for 2015 and or 2016, with Hamilton added: CF K. Walker (Tekotte, J. Mitchell) 2B C. Sanchez DH J. Hamilton RF C. Hawkins 1B K. Barnum C T. Flowers LF T. Thompson 3B ? SS Ramirez SP Danks Sales Quintana Castro Bullpen Santiago Reed Jones Veal There is potentially a lot of young talent that could fill out the roster, at a low cost. Then there are all of the unknown names that could be added along the way through the draft or trades. The absence of current long term contracts, coupled with some of the promising youngsters who are still 2 or 3 years from being ready to begin MLB service time, might actually give the Sox a little room to contemplate signing Hamilton. Why not go for it now, and see what happens after Dunn, Rios, Konerko, Peavy and some of the other guys are gone after 2014. Until then, that lineup would sure look good with Hamilton's left handed bat.

Is there a way to structure a contract that would nullify it, if a player were found to have serious substance abuse problems? I understand that it would be difficult to do, even if it were approved by the Player's Union. Nevertheless, it does seem fair and reasonable. After all, it's one thing for a player to be injured, and yet quite another for him to become an addict, or relapse into a state of active drug, or alcohol addiction. Perhaps he could be suspended without pay, until he demonstrated that he was no longer using the particular drugs specified in the contract. Again it's complicated, but it just doesn't make sense for a team to not have some recourse, under such conditions. Only in sports!!!!! In the "real" world, a guy would just be fired, with no compensation. It's ludicrous for a team be responsible to pay a player $25 or $30 million per year, under such circumstances? Where is the accountability?

Headley would immediately become our #3 hitter. Viciedo is not likely to be able to fill that role, and even if he did, he's not left handed. The lineup would be so much better balanced with a good left handed bat in the number 3 spot. Then you can bat Dunn 5TH or 6TH, which is a better spot for him. As Caulfield pointed out, it's a lot easier to find another left fielder than it is to find a good hitting third baseman. I wouldn't mind seeing de Aza moved to LF and either Danks or Tekotte being given a shot in CF. That would give you a great defensive outfield. How good is Headley's defense at third? One thing to consider is that Headley already has 3.125 years of MLB service time, so he isn't going to be locked up very long. Last year was a break out year for him as a power hitter, especially in August and September. I hope that it wasn't a fluke. I also noticed that he hit quite a few more homers on the road than at Petco Park, which is not surprising. He might hit close to 40 at the Cell.

Some of the names of players that have been suggested on this board are interesting. However, it seems likely that any significant position player acquisition will be a left handed hitter. And it would be a better move than bringing in another right handed bat. Therefore, it seems very doubtful that players like Justin Upton would be candidates.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 07:57 AM) It's your dream to have Sanchez starting at 2B and a AAAA player starting and leading off in center? Those two black holes in the lineup would more than make up the difference between Hamilton and Viciedo. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Sanchez. He's very young, and is likely going to be at the top of the order soon. How fast? Who knows, but he's coming, and he is a prototypical # 2 hitter. Walker is a third option in CF.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 07:28 AM) Why trade De Aza? It isn't like he is making a a lot of money. Tekotte is a long shot at best to be on the roster. He couldn't stick with the Padres. Considering him as a leadoff possibility for the White Sox isn't realistic. If you notice, except for Floyd, none of the guys the Sox supposedly have thrown out there make much money. I don't know why trading guys who make no money opens the door for guys making more money than anyone in franchise history. I think you're right. But, I can dream, can't I? It would just be so nice to actually have a potent left handed bat, with a high OBP. Dunn in the middle of the order is just not good enough. If he's still on the team, I hope that he bats somewhere lower than fifth. Maybe they'll go after someone less expensive than Hamilton. I just saw how much he's asking for in free agency. Yikes!!!!