Dick Allen

The batter after Cooper comes out to the mound has MVP numbers the past couple of years.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 07:35 PM) Some of these shifts piss me off. You can't do it to the best hitters that can hit anywhere. Stop trying to be cute with the shifts If you take extra bases out of the equation with Longoria, it is fine.

Are CS percentages higher these days than 4 or 5 years ago? It seems to me whether it is the White Sox or other games I watch, runners seem to be getting gunned down far more often.

There are actually a lot more people there than I would have thought.

And the mandatory walk.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Did Leo Mazzone actually want to find a job after Baltimore? IIRC he only went there because a friend of his was managing. Just to point out... Oh yes. This is a couple years old. He also lobbied for the Phillies job this past winter http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...es&c_id=mlb

One thing a lot of people don't realize is Dayan Viciedo is actually a year younger than Adam Eaton.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) But Foulke was borderline "established" as a fifth starter with the Giants, not as a reliever. Crede, with the back issues, there's no way of knowing what he would have gone on to do after Chicago. We can all see the inconsistency due to health out of Quentin, as well. The difference is all those pitchers were noted FAILURES (except for Danks, who hadn't really had a full opportunity in Texas). Contreras in NY, Floyd in Philly. Jenks nearly out of the game of baseball and out of control in the Angels' organization. Santos a former 1st rounder who was almost out of the game as a SS. Peavy was pitching with 3-5 mph off his peak 2007 Cy Young velocity. Disasters right and left with most of the pitchers. JD broke his leg, but he had some super solid years with the Braves and Royals. Don Cooper took over as the White Sox pitching coach in 2002. You may want to check Keith Foulke 1999-2001.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) Repeat something enough times and it just bound to become truth. Getting past the weird Cooper obsession, Don Cooper has a reputation as one of the best pitching coaches in all of baseball. Period. This isn't a Soxtalk thing like you want to make it into. Who Soxtalk would have picked to be in the rotation in 2005, or whatever other non sequitur you want to throw at the wall is irrelevant. I think he's a good pitching coach. I've said that several times. He's just not the pitching god people make him out to be. No one is. Leo Mazzone was a genius in Atlanta. He went to Baltimore, got some bad pitchers got fired and then couldn't get hired. Offensively, Rudy Jaramillo was a genius. I remember the guy saying Walker was "lift and pull" (which couldn't have been more wrong), thinking Jaramillo was such a hitting genius, the Sox needed to hire his "assistant". Little did he know, that Jaramillo's philosophy is pretty close to "lift and pull". Everyone here has to realize Don Cooper is not looked at the same way all the other coaches are looked at. If the Sox botch a rundown its on Ventura or the infield coach. If they don't hit, the hitting coach sucks. If the pitchers screw up, then and only then is it on the player. unless it is on Ventura for using them incorrectly. You know as well as I, Cooper makes most, if not all of the pitching decisions. For some who don't agree with all the decisions, knowing that is like discovering Santa Claus isn't real. I just try to put Coop in the same light everyone else puts the rest of the coaching staff.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) Walker started with the White Sox in 2003. It's also about expectations. Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko and Thome were all established major league players, some HOF or All-Stars...even Jermaine Dye. So Rowand and Crede, sure (but then you have the noted failures of Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Gordon Beckham and many others to go along with that...Alex Rios pre-2012, Adam Dunn's 2011 mystifying fall off, Nick Swisher's anomalous 2008 season). And you can give Walker Carlos Quentin of 2008. Or you can say that he was simply healthy for one good chunk of a season and was provided the opportunity to play full-time. And AJ Pierzynski was always a top hitting catcher, for example. But from that list of pitchers, they have some big-time pedigrees, but most of them came to the White Sox as reclamation projects, with Contreras being the quintessential example of all. Talent, but lack of results with previous teams for a plethora of reasons. Javy always gets thrown out as a Cooper failure, but no pitching coach every really had consistent success with him, despite his success. Trading away Daniel Hudson and Brandon McCarthy and Gio gets blamed on him too, for some reason. Or Ventura's bullpen mismanagement. What was Dye's 2004 season like? How about Thome's 2005? What was Paulie doing the firs half of 2003 before Walker was hired? These guys fit the same critieria as most of your list. Contreras was the most highly acclaimed Cuban pitcher. Danks was a #1 pick the Sox traded their top prospect for. Gavin Floyd was a top 5 pick. Bobby Jenks was a top prospect and seemed to get it together in the minors. He hit the ground running with the Sox. Peavy was a Cy Young award winner. Keith Foulke and Buerhle were well established before Cooper became the pitching coach. How many of Coop will fix 'em's success stories were sustained?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) I see your point, but that's not a good example because of those, only Crede wasn't already really good or a top prospect. No reclamation projects there. But a lot of the list for Cooper wasn't really reclamation except the names I mentioned. Dye and Thome and Konerko were reclimations as much as most of the Cooper list. Cooper doesn't get scrutinized for guys failing nearly as much as the Sox hitting coaches or manager have. That's just a fact. If Darin Erstad is horrible and Andy Gonzalez doesn't hack it in the 3 spot, Walker was an idiot. If the Sox botch a rundown, Ventura hasn't shown them the proper way. If the bullpen walks 5 out of 6 batters, the pitchers just suck. Several guys weren't so good with the White Sox but had pitching success later elsewhere. Other than Nick Swisher, I don't think there is any White Sox who had far more success offensively after sucking it up with the White Sox. Of course, many of the White Sox hitters were veterans who were either done or nearing the end of the line, but no one was able to "fix" the other guys.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) Noesi is out of options, so what's the deal here? Is he in the pen tonight or are they trying to pull a Javy Guerra and get him through waivers themselves? They would probably send down Putnam. They may get a day or so to make something happen because I doubt he was in the area when claimed.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) I don't think we spend comparatively to other teams on pitching at all and that makes Cooper a success. Now perhaps, but back in the day the Sox were paying around 8 figures for a #5 starter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) Don Cooper kicked your dog. Admit it. Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Aaron Rowand, Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko, Jim Thome, Joe Crede...... Just some names Greg Walker coached. According to most here, he was turrible.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Right there shows a big problem right now...no names from the past two years. And many of those names how do you give Cooper all the success? Even Contreras, who during 2005 Soxtalk wanted gone for AJ Burnett. There was a story that El Duque told Contreras he needed to attack hitters like he did in Cuba, and that is what got him going. The Coop will fix 'em is something that really is overblown. He did "fix" Thornton. It was done in one side session. You definitely have to give him a lot of credit for Loaisa, but that didn't last long. Floyd was a top 5 pick and pretty frustrating most of his White Sox career. Maybe he did something with Quintana. But other than that, there is nothing earthshattering here. I'm sure he's a good pitching coach, but some think he walks on water and does no wrong. The White Sox spent a lot more money per player on pitching than on offense during the past decade. The guys they didn't pay were just as bad as the guys that aren't paid on other teams.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) Edwin Jackson with the White Sox - 30 GS, 196.2 IP, 3.66 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 8 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 He was really good with the Sox. He also was good with the Tigers, but he was a lot better with the Sox than most realize.

He's trash, but so are Francisco, Guerra, Boggs, Hanson. Maybe they will get lucky but it is obvious they are desperate for someone. Anyone.

With the Hawks and Bulls both playing tonight, what is the over/under on actual attendance? I'm saying 1500.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) Look, I think it is ridiculous that he would be suspended a year for smoking. But I also think it is equally ridiculous that he took one puff and got busted for it. Come on. Yeah, he always said no, except that one time. OK Mitch.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) If the Sox think is Aiken is the best player available at #3 they take him. If the Sox think Rodon is the best player available at #3 they take him permitting he has obtrusive salary commands. Quintana and Danks get out righties better than lefties and Sale gets out everything in front of him. Are you just obsessed with handedness? If the Sox had three righthanded pitchers would you be hoping we get Aiken/Rodon instead of Kolek/Hoffman? This is such a silly notion. You get the guys who get batters out. I've never understood it. Teams have 4 or 5 righties in their rotation all the time. The World Champion White Sox had 4. So what if they had 4 lefites. If 4 lefty starters is a no no, then shouldn't 1 be a no no? Get good pitchers. Don't worry about what side they throw from.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) Good thing the D-Backs gave up on Eaton. Right now, it looks like Hahn should have to do time for stealing Eaton. To me, it seems his issue is going to be whether or not he can stay healthy.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 08:53 AM) Well in his career Jones has never had a save. He has had 8 blown saves in his career. But you think in 48 chances he gets 40???? I'll stick w 20 at best. Middle reliever save vs. blown saves are always blown out of proportion. They don't get save opportunities, but are usually in blown save opportunities. You can't judge a middle reliever by his save percentage.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) Just like the Sox didn't want Addison Reed, right? Of course that's not true, because the Sox did like Addison Reed, but they felt that Davidson was a better fit for them and the DBacks felt that Reed was a better fit for them. Yes, but the D Backs were supposedly desperate for power. They gave up a lot to get Trumbo. If they thought Davidson could provide that, I don't think they make that trade. Trumbo can hit homers, but other than that, is pretty awful. To me it's like the Sox trading Addison Reed when they are looking for a closer.

It has to be a thrill for him. For us, it will be lucky if he is better than Leesman.

Davidson has been 2011 Adam Dunn bad in AAA.