Dick Allen

3rd straight start allowing 6 runs.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) It's really easy to second guess. It was a low-risk, high reward type move. He's being paid $1.75 million this year and he's got a team option next year with a $250k buyout. That's chump change for a guy who could possibly eat 160-170 innings for you (which Paulino still can do). While I don't think he is as bad as he has been, to say he can eat 160-170 innings is like saying Viciedo can hit 40 homers. Sure, there is some very small chance, but Paulino is coming off a year off from surgery and has a career high of around 130 innings.

Sign him to a lifetime contract. When he is done playing, he can go to little league events and give 8 year olds the chance to fan him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) Complete game, 92 pitches So the game will be called after the Sox bat in the 5th. He actually is due for a decent start.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 18, 2014 -> 07:11 AM) Thornton was never as bad as Cleto was last year but regardless, my point is that Cleto should not be in high-leverage situations right now, seemingly solely based on the fact that he has a (luckily) good 2014 ERA. If he shows the amount of improvement Thornton showed, then sure. Was Thornton pitching in high-leverage situations after he had pitched just 20 innings in the majors? I really don't know how you conclude Cleto starting the ninth was based entirely on his current ERA. If that was the case, there are only one or two relievers Ventura would ever use.

Lindstrom in the 9th.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:03 PM) Yeah, but you don't just say "everyone is awful, let's just throw someone out there." You look at the degrees to which people have been bad, why they have been bad, how long have they been bad for. Cleto has the worst history of the lot. If you go all by his past, the guy shouldn't be in uniform. He should be selling cars. I agree his past should be a consideration, but the White Sox thought they have pretty much solved his control problems. Obviously, that wasn't the case last night.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:16 PM) Is Hawk asleep? He was sick and his voice goes.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:16 PM) Is Hawk asleep? Je was sick and his voice goes.

QUOTE (beautox @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:50 PM) Enter the Semien haters, listen hes got a great understanding of the zone and he watched that pitch outside of it. He is going to be a good player for the sox. There aren't any Semien haters. He just isn't as advanced at the moment as the Beckham haters want to believe.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:10 PM) So does that mean we should talk about Gordo's RC at AA? No because his parents don't even care.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Everybody take a deep breath and learn how to read a fangraphs page. Marcus Semien posted a 170 wRC+ in close to 500 Double A at bats last year. That means that there's some actual hope with this one. Nobody cares about Gordon Beckham, not even his own parents. And everybody knows it's all about your wRC+ in AA, not the actual results in major league games.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Nah. The 9th is Webb time. Deep down, you know this. What did Webb do his first inning last night?

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 02:00 PM) Definitely would not have run out of pitchers had they been able to throw the ball for strikes.(minus lindstrom and webb before he gassed) Even Webb walked the first guy he faced which eventually scored.

I personally think Veal is far better than Putnam. This move dissappoints me.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) Kill or move this negative thread if you wish, but last night after watching the game on MLB.com for a few hours, I found myself FURIOUS that Robin gave away a baseball game. Normally you can blame the manager, but you can't, if you know what I mean. Their decisions affect the outcomes of every game, but last night ... running out of pitchers in a tie game?? Robin Venture single-handedly gave Boston the game by having to pitch L. Garcia in a tie game. It was one game on the schedule gift wrapped and deposited in the Sox L column of the ledger. All because of the manager. My question is: Are you as mad as me?? And my question for Mr. Ventura is ... in your long baseball career, did your manager on any level ever run out of pitchers in a tie game where you had to gift wrap the game for the opposing team by pitching a fricking infielder??? Didn't think so. Congratulations on being the first that anybody can remember. Perhaps he was upset at all the walks, but you don't throw an infielder in a tie game. How bout asking for a volunteer from the starting staff to pitch? I am disgusted by last night. Throwing a damn infielder in the 14th inning? My god. I didn't see the Red Sox running out of pitchers. Once every few years, you have to do it for the longer term good of the team. Hope Leury gets lucky, he almost did, and the team scores. Webb couldn't go anymore. They could have maybe thrown a starter out there, but they didn't want to screw him up. Leury almost got out of it, but the fact is even if he did, there would have been more baseball as the Sox didn't score. Remember in the 2005 WS game 3 when Buehrle came in. Ozzie said Buehrle was pitching one inning, and after that, if Blum hadn't homered, we would have seen a postion player on the bump. The Sox were out of options because the guys in the 8th and beginning of the 9th couldn't throw a strike so they were yanked. If he would have left them in and they continued to walk people, he would have been criticized for not taking them out. I have no problem with what happened last night, including inserting Garcia instead of Paulino. If Paulino pitches, they probably lose anyway, and then screw up his next start, meaning another loss.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) Yes, many other forms of live entertainment have gotten disproportionately expensive recently. I don't do many of those things as well, because the cost is outsized to the value I perceive of the product. Concerts, Great America, the Zoo...everything. In the early 2000s, I made about half the money I make now but I found a way to go to about 20 games a year. Nowadays, I'm lucky if I make it to one, even though I have way, way more money. Why? Because my HOME entertainment options are way better. I have better television programming alternatives, I have a better internet. I also now have a high definition huge TV and a DVR to cut out commercials. Personally, I don't go to White Sox games anymore largely because I can watch them on crystal clear high definition television - without commercials - for zero cost. Suddenly, an all night commitment...getting to the ballpark.....all night there.... at $30-$40 plus food becomes a whenever-I-want-thing for 60 minutes at no money. It would be substantially more attractive to me if the cost was more in line with what I perceive the value to me to be. That's just me, though. It could be different for different people. However, if you have a family of four, and the average cost to get them all into the ballpark is $25-$40 a ticket....plus other stuff.....for just a regular season ball game....that would seem to me to be very outsized from what most people can afford to blow on a couple hours of entertainment. I had season tickets for many years. I gave them up in 2012, and re-entered with a weekend package last year. I still have them this year. I'm going to watch the games anyway, but I love going to day games. That's why I have these. I also love my Samsung HDTV. I was invited to go tonight, I don't have to work tomorrow, but I'm with you, I'm going to be sucking back $8 beers with my buddy, sitting there for who knows how long. I just am not up for it. I told him to give the tickets away, come over, we'll throw something on the grill, say what Hawk is going to say right before he says it, and amaze my wife, and drink until we puke.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 12:33 PM) He said that now, I don't buy it for a second though. The Knicks can offer $40 million more than the Bulls from what I read. I would never blame someone for not taking it, but I'm with you, once the "it's not about the money" stuff starts flying, it seems to end up all about the money. IMO, I think the only way the Bulls sign him is with some sort of sign and trade. I think Pheel would be interested in that. What the Bulls would have to give up, I have zero idea.He has to figure by the time the Knicks are championship quality, Melo is going to be pretty long in the tooth.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) No, if he took on a paid role for the Sox he would have to forego that money. Depends on the language of the contract, but as I stated, I don't think KW's comment was for a paid role. Just coming to a game, and perhaps visiting the clubhouse. Then I was told he can't do that because of his contract with the Marlins. I don't think that is accurate in the least. Why would Loria care if Ozzie went to the Sox clubhouse?

And while everyone sings Webb's praises, he promptly walked the first guy he faced last night and let him score. Robin could have left Downs in, or Cleto in or Petricka in, and the only difference it would have made was the game would have ended sooner. I am not understanding why the bullpen is having such a tough time with walks. It obviously has been discussed and probably at least partially the reason for the quick hooks. After all, it was a game the Sox were winning.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) still on the payroll, he would have to forgo 2 more years of checks To visit the clubhouse? I really think that is not accurate.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) he CAN'T. he's an employee of the marlins. ?

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Why the f*** was Cleto in to pitch last night, specifically in the 9th? Before last night his K/9 was a little over 4, his BB/9 about 6, his BABIP .125 and his xFIP over 6. The only positive thing on a statistical side of things was that he had a 0.00 ERA. This despite giving up the game-winning run at the Royals to Perez with an awful hanging pitch. All things (largely) outside of his control being equal and his ERA would have been 6+. This is a dude who walked 53 guys in 53.1 innings at AAA for the Cardinals last year, and then 21 in 38 innings for the Royals AAA. He had faced 2 guys in the 8th last night and walked one of them. So why, why, why was he brought into start the 9th inning in a one-run game? I get that he's a reclamation project and his stuff has the potential to be nasty etc. etc. but you have Lindstrom and Webb available. Lindstrom has been pretty bad but his peripherals were still comfortably better than Cleto. Webb is obviously the best arm in the pen right now. I get that you don't want him to close just yet, but then s***, put him in for the 8th before Cleto even gets in the game. It was a really high leverage situation too, right where you want your best relievers. Is it as simple as Robin seeing Cleto's 0.00 ERA and thinking "wow, he's been good, I'll put him in for the highest leverage situations right now"? For the 9th it was probably a case of realising only Lindstrom and Webb were left and trying to avoid using them so the pen would have something in reserve, but if that was the case, use Webb in the 8th and to start the 9th, and when you have to use Cleto it's probably in a lower-leverage situation. I sure as s*** hope we're not facing a similar situation and Robin looking at his 1.35 ERA and throwing him in. His K/9 is now 4.05, his BB/9 9.45, BABIP .118 and xFIP 7.59. He's still due to regress pretty fast, pretty soon, ERA-wise. Until he shows progress in his peripherals, specifically his control, he should be up in the lowest-leverage situations possible. No offense, but I'm sure Robin knows more about baseball and numbers than probably anyone on this board. Lindstrom was hammered on this board and others. Now all of a sudden, people are up in arms he didn't start the 9th inning last night on all White Sox message boards.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) Or use Surkamp as the long man and replacement for Veal (2nd lefty). That's probably the best option at the moment. Surkamp can't get guys out in AAA. I don't know why he should be in Chicago.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) The season ticket base erosion from 2008-2013 is what brought us here. NOT winning a WS in 2005. Walk up sales are being cannibalized by stubhub sales, as most people look there first before going to whitesox.com. BUT, in the years since 2005, the Sox have offered untold ammounts of comp tickets, moreso than from 2000-2004. The kids club, which is free, gives each member FOUR free tickets(up from 2). That plays a factor in the attendance debate. But why did it erode? Making the playoffs didn't help. Being in first place most of the season didn't help. Signing pretty big names and bringing fan favorites back didn't help. Many people want to jump on the bandwagon, but IMO now it has to be a championship bandwagon.