Dick Allen

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 11, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) There's a little rule in the NBA regarding trades with teams at or near the cap and salaries having to be damn-near close. The trade actually cannot happen without Boozer. I am fully aware of the rule, and still think Boozer's inclusion is ridiculous. If he was an expiring, fine. But he's not. Hence, I believe this potential trade is a figment of someone's imagination. If it is true and it did happen, I take back every bad thing I have ever said or thought about GarPax.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 11, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) One of the lessons I've taken from guys like Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, and Taj Gibson is...if a team has a star or two already, the value of a recently-drafted first round player can be enormous. It's having those kind of guys filling up your roster that allows you to offer that 2nd max contract in addition to the guy you already have. Still, stars win championships in the NBA. You can't pass up picking one up because you value non lottery first round picks. They may turn out, but the jury is still out on Snell, Butler is a nice player, but you can find that production, and if your team is good enough, veterans will play for exception money to win and fill those minutes. I'm 99.99% sure this rumor has zero truth in it anyway. Boozer is the tell to me. I don't know why the Knicks would pay him $15 million next year in order to give the Bulls Melo now.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Feb 11, 2014 -> 11:24 AM) I agree with Steve here on the Bulls side of things. Why give up 3 firsts when the potential is there that they can just sign him. Maybe if Rose was coming back for the playoffs it could payoff, but right now I'd prefer they be sellers at the trade deadline....Still just 4.5 games out of the bottom 10, if they trade guys like Taj, Dunleavy, and Kirk then they very well could free fall. The Bulls do it because they with this trade they can increase the chances of getting him to be a Bull next year. The 3 firsts aren't that big of a deal as they most likely won't be lottery picks. Also, the crazy thing that makes me think this has to be false is the inclusion of Boozer. The Bulls would love this, because even if he was amenstied, they still have to pay him the difference between his salary next year and his salary with the team that takes him. The Knicks are stuck with him next year if they trade for him. It really doesn't make sense for the Knicks unless they know Melo is out of there. For the Bulls, that trade is a no brainer. The Bulls need another star or two. Thibs can get guys picked up off the scrap heap to contribute and be decent role players.

You can say the Sox won the division in 1994 but you can't say they made the playoffs, and it figures that was the season for no playoffs. Thomas and Franco were out of their minds offensively. Julio Franco was one guy who never gets mentioned as to how good he was. In his one year with the White Sox, whatever Frank didn't drive in, including himself, he did. The guy put up a .799 OPS as a 46 year old. The "wrong side of 30" didn't apply to him.

I am jealous of anyone going to Spring Training.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Feb 7, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) If it is 60 and sunny for opening day, Comiskey Park will be rocking. We are getting so used to being so cold, 60 degrees and people will be dropping from heat exhaustion. I was walking around Sunday when it was sunny and not much wind. To me it felt pretty nice. It was 17 degrees. I'm a guy who will not attend a Bears game if the temperature is supposed to be under 50.

The Blue Jays won the trophy for last offseason. That stuff matters about as much at the attendance trophy in Lakeview. It's like giving out awards for movies before you actually see the movies.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) Ah, and there the change in argument is. You got names, so you moved on to the next non sequitor. The lazy mans argument at its finest. No change in the argument. You said the reason the Sox picked bad players was because of money. Then you mention players they could have signed that in reality cost less money than the bad players they did pick. I am done with you.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 06:55 PM) Also ignored is that is one only one team. Another quick google search gives up Anthony Rizzo and Will Middlebrooks from the 2007 draft of the Red Sox. Another click gives up Joba Chamberlin and Ian Kennedy from the Yankees 2006 draft. Rick Porcello from the Tigers pops up in another search. Also popping up were Camerin Maybin and Andrew Miller... you know the duo used to get that Cabrera guy? Jeff Samardzija was an overslot guy. Rick Ankiel was an over slot guy. JD Drew was an over slot guy. Got enough WARs yet? And you do know why they might have signed above slot, they signed for less than the Sox gave guys like Honel and Broadway and McCollough, or maybe you don't. Samardzia got $250k.the White Sox couldn't recognize talent. It is truly amazing you can't understand that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) That first game was on a Monday. 1/2 price tickets for that day? I don't think they did half price nights last year. At least for the Yankees. I still think ultimately the Yankees will either try to void the contract or just eat the money and release him. I don't know who would touch him now except for maybe the Marlins.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 02:08 PM) Britton, Arieta, and Bundy? Ignored. Not ignored. Not difference makers.the 3 combined for a 0.3 WAR in 2013. Bobby is Less talented of the Bundy boys.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) And he fired Larussa as the manager. But, it seems to me that Hawk had his hand in a good trade for us but I can't remember what it was Ivan Calderon.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) One click in google popped this up, for just the Orioles. Ready to change the subject again? http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/sho...erslot-Signings 05 Overslot signings(prep or collegiate) Brandon Erbe RHP(HS) 3rd round David Hernandez RHP(CC) 16th round 06 Overslot signings(prep or collegiate) Zach Britton LHP(HS) 3rd round round 07 Overslot signings(prep or collegiate) Matt Wieters C(Collegiate) 1st round Jake Arrieta RHP(Collegiate) 5th round 08 Overslot signings(prep or collegiate) Brian Matusz LHP(Collegiate) 1st round Bobby Bundy RHP(HS) 8th round Jesse Beal RHP(HS) 14th round Oliver Drake RHP(Collegiate) 43rd round Weiters was the 5th pick in the draft. Do you really think the other guys make the White Sox better? Try again. All that shows it that paying over slot does not guarantee success.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 01:31 PM) You've been changing the subject to repackage your failed argument for days now. For the last time, The Sox were last in draft spending intentionally. They purposefully spend less money so as to redirect those funds to the major league team. No matter what you try to change the "point" to, and NONE of the non sequitors you keep trying to deflect to change those basic facts. It doesn't matter what new angles you come up with, or what words to bold in your statements. But feel free to keep trying to turn it into something else again, even after having the last theory proven wrong about draft spending happening because of draft position, even though the Red Sox and Yankees blew that one up. For days now? I posted on this subject yesterday. Oh yeah, again you fail to give any names. And I have given specific names of players who were available at the same money the Sox were willing to pay or even less. You have provided zero examples of how if they wanted to spend more and go over slot, they would have been able to select an over slot guy. Name the over slot guys.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) /didn'tworkswitchtopics Exactly the game you are playing. The Yankees system sucks as well BTW. I have provided names. You have not. Why are you trying to change the subject? If you are going to say didn't work switch topics, why can't you provide specific examples as I have done? Seems between the 2 of us, there is only one playing the game you are accusing me of playing, and it isn't me. It is quite amazing asking you to answer the exact same question you refuse to answer is considered changing the topic in your world. LMAO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees were in the top five every year? Examples of players the Sox didn't get because they didn't want to spend the money please. Not all over slot guys panned out either. Give me some names.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 12:44 PM) So it is just coincidence that the highest spending teams from 2007 to 2011 have the best farm systems today? lol, ok. You do realize you become high spending when you pick in the top 5 every year don't you? There was one team worse than the White Sox. One. And of course when asked to name a few over slot guys that would have propelled the White Sox to at least average, crickets.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 12:14 PM) You have changed the goalposts about 50 times in the scope of this discussion to make some point that actually sort of works for you. You completely ignored anything that didn't work, including exactly what the former and current GM had to say on this subject, which is better than a couple of anecdotal pieces of made up "evidence" that don't even relate to the original discussion. There are also plenty of times that teams went overslot drafting after the Sox to pick higher ceiling-ed players, which even casts doubt on your latest non sequitor. Name these over slot guys that the White Sox refusal to sign made their collective draft WAR less than half the average major league team. You always ask for examples and say the poster won't provide them. Here is a chance to practice what you preach. I haven't moved the goalposts at all. You are ignoring the White Sox passed on several players who were quickly snatched up and who became stars when they picked their busts. And for some reason think if they had spent more money, that would have automatically made them pick the best players when the evidence shows that to be unrealistic.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 12:20 PM) I get this whole vibe from Hawk that he doesnt want to talk about Hahn that much. He mentions him, but soxfest was the first time he seemed to willingly be positive about him in a public way Sees him as a changing of the guard, suits-over-jocks in front offices? When Hawk was the GM, he basically fired Dombrowski because Dombrowski didn't have a background as a player. I always wondered what he would think about Hahn considered it was rather obvious he was next in line for several years. I do get the impression that he likes and respects him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 11:56 AM) You are honestly saying that money has nothing to do with a farm system? Speaking of ignoring... You are the one doing all of the ignoring. I have given examples of players selected near the Sox selections that were much better players than the ones the White Sox selected, and they didn't cost more money. We all know KW has thrown money at things on the major league level and it didn't make the team better. You have provided exactly zero examples of if the Sox spent more they automatically draft better. I showed you a couple of times they did spend, and it didn't work out. If spending money was a guarantee that the White Sox would be able to select the best player on the board, I just wonder when all it cost was what they were willing to pay, why they didn't choose a better player? Just answer that question.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) No matter how you spin it or change the argument, the point has been made over and over again. The Sox spent less than anyone else on the minor league system than anyone else in baseball, and they did it on purpose, to funnel money to the major league club. How does that prove that KW could have had a top minor league system if he wanted one? His drafts were epically bad. He passed on players who became really good players and paid bad ones the same or more money. Ignore it if you want. I don't care. Everyone else sees it. For the last time, no matter how much money you spend, you still have to spend it on the correct players.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) Another determinant of draftee success is minor league instruction. Anyone gonna argue we've been any good at that? Pitchers, perhaps. Definitely not hitters. To me, that is a huge question. Maybe the profile the hitters they draft are all pretty much the same, because most seem to have the same problems. When I go home I will get the term BP used, it's pretty funny, but there are so many White Sox farmhands that have making contact as a huge weakness, it makes you wonder about instruction and development. Are they picking the wrong players, or are they not developing them. Reading BP, you get the sense if they had an Olympic games, White Sox minor leaguers would get a lot of medals with their speed and strength. Playing baseball seems an entirely different matter. Maybe the new hitting coach and what they plan with an organizational offensive philosophy will help. We know it won't hurt.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) Exactly what I stated from the beginning is 100% true. The White Sox spent 15% less than any other team in all of baseball from 2007 to 2011. They spent about 1/3 of what the top team spent. Both Hahn and Williams have clearly stated that they took money from development and put it into the major league team. Spin all you like, the facts are the facts. They flat our sacrificed the minors for the majors. If you want to stay in denial, by all means, do so. Wasn't the argument always draft position? Now it is spending. The fact is, if they are picking top 5 every year, they would have spent more. When they did spend, over $5 million for Borchard, the biggest bonus ever at the time I believe, and almost $2.5 million for Josh Fields, those guys sucked. Money wasn't the cure all. THEY NEEDED TO SELECT BETTER PLAYERS. One last time, I gave examples of guys who were available for slot money and were selected around the White Sox picks. There has been one example of going over slot, Porcello vs. Poreda which would have netted a better player. The White Sox paid slot. Current stars signed for slot. The White Sox from 2001-2007 had less than half the cumulative WAR of the average MLB team. KW threw money at the Major League team? Did it make the team better? Why would it have automatically made the minor league system better? And we haven't even mentioned the guy KW actually gave a promotion, and then wound up in jail.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) But then you said you weren't talking about the team itself but instead the top picks. I do agree that Williams was exaggerating to some extent, but Reinsdorf really did hamstring him in those situations because he was unwilling to pay overslot for players. A ton of people on the board wanted the Sox to draft Rick Porcello, but because he was a Boras client and was going to go overslot, we knew there was a 0% chance of it happening. Then they took Aaron Poreda - who the f is this? - and the Tigers took Porcello shortly there after. Williams saying "we could have a good minor league system if we wanted" is a little bit of exaggeration, but he also did allocate most of that money to the MLB team. It would have been better had they spent $90 million on the MLB team instead. In hindsight, they probably should have, but they are trying to fix that problem now. Hopefully in 2-4 years, they have a top 10 minor league system and are producing talent all over the place. I am talking entire draft. I don't think Porcello vs. Poreda is the difference between good and bad the past 13 seasons, but it is one example of paying over slot for a better player. Porcello may be really good one day, Poreda never will be, but if you recall, the White Sox were really high on him. He was the first poster child for the not taking the "safe" pick. He made his debut in Milwaukee. I was pretty excited to see him pitch. That didn't last long.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 10, 2014 -> 09:43 AM) Just curious, where are you getting your numbers? I've done a lot of googling and come up with nothing useful. It is in my Baseball Prospectus.