Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) Wait a second...so the White Sox's rotation would be "Sale, Quintana, Danks, Jiminez, and EJ"...which one of those are we expecting to go down with this long-term injury? If we're planning for that...isn't one of the likely onest o go down...Jiminez? Whether they sign Jimenez or not, there are overwhelming odds a White Sox starting pitcher spends some time on the DL in 2014.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 08:38 AM) Congratulations. You just completely, utterly ignored every single word I said. Well done. Well done and applause. You seem to have a fetish that some others have on this board, and actually like to watch guys like Axelrod take the mound to get hammered time and time again before you are fairly certain they shouldn't be in a playoff contender's starting rotation. As I stated, there will be plenty of starts to go around if pitchers show they are worthy. Paulino has never pitched 140 innings in a season and is coming off a missed season. It is very unlikely he can or will make 30 starts. Rienzo has to prove he belongs. He hasn't yet. A stint in the bullpen or some more time at Charlotte could be good for him. Others will go down with injuries or if everyone is pitching well another team will need someone, because it pretty much happens every year except once . In 2005 the White Sox only used 6 starters.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) Plug whatever name into that slot you want. It works just as well for Paulino, Rienzo, and so on. And if they earn a job pitching on the major league level, they will pitch. Teams that have only used 5 or 6 starters the entire year the past 50 years, can probably be counted on one hand. If you are good enough to pitch, you will eventually pitch. If the White Sox are so talented with starting pitchers that there is no room for someone of Jimenez's ilk, they are definitely a playoff contending team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 08:16 AM) GMAB. That's not what anyone has said and you know that. They've said "we have the kind of pitchers we need right now". Erik Johnson might well not outpitch Jiminez this season. He's a rookie, rookies often struggle and take several years to develop. But that doesn't mean we should immediately decide not to give him the opportunity to start that learning process. Who said anything about not giving Johnson a chance?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:47 AM) We aren't in a position to give up draft choices for an inconsistent pitcher. Arroyo is a mediocre innings eater..don't need that. The Sox need to get into a position to compete for many years. Stockpile prospects and draft choices...don't give up draft choices or trade away every ready prospect who we have to keep in AAA to plug some hole with a mediocre/declining veteran. I would be more inclined to sign Jimenez if his price dipped that low. His problem was his delivery. He changed it and is far more consistent. He was dominant the last half of the season and was dominant in Colorado. Cooper's emphasis is on repeatable delivery. Jimenez took a couple of MPHs off his stuff last year and was really successful after an awful start. If he was available for 3 years at $13 million a year, despite what some think, he is a far better pitcher than Paulino (and actually younger too), and will most likely be a far better player than the currently #43 pick while increasing the White Sox talent level and pitching depth to cover for trade, non performance and injury. If the White Sox really have 5 to 7 pitchers as good as Jimenez as has also been claimed, they are going to be winning a lot more than 71-78 games. Obviously Hahn has said he is not signing anyone linked to giving up a draft pick, so unless he is posturing, the point is moot. But I think, if the price gets to this point and he doesn't change his mind, he is making a mistake. Scott Kazmir costs $22 million. Next year or the year after, you may be competing to sign guys with the big boys again and that doesn't work out so well. The Sox got Abreu because they sat out on him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 02:02 PM) A Sale or Quintana injury and that's easily projectable as a loss total. That doesn't mean the young offensive players haven't made progress, necessarily. If you have to worry about Sale coming back from an injury, and the team loses 90 games, I don't call that progress. Considering the White Sox aren't doing the rebuild the Twins or Cubs way, the major league record actually means something during this rebuild. If this team wins close to 90 games or more, there is no way to describe it other than great. If they lose 90 or more, it is going to depress a lot of people.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:51 PM) If Semien, A. Garcia, Eaton, Davidson and Viciedo all have good (or stronger than expected seasons), it's still possible we could lose 90 and it would be a satisfactory season, as long as there's not a major injury to the pitching staff. That would also likely mean Ramirez, Beckham, Dunn, DeAza and the catcher's spot are disappointing (along with Danks and the closer's role), which isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, either. If the White Sox are bad enough to lose 90 games, the development is not going to be satifactory.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) #1) If those guys were 4/$40, they wouldn't be on the free agent market. They MAY take that over 3 years. #2) $40 over 3 years is just under $14 mill a year. Guess what Dunn's annual average salary was? #3) Since when in is $40 million *cheap*? Well you sure have changed. When you wanted Salty for $44 million, you said that wasn't a lot of money in today's game.

I think winning is part of player development. Not necessarily the division, but losing 90 games shows your players aren't developing very well.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) Semien looked OK last year, and Beckham was great when he came up, only to fall by the wayside shortly thereafter. Viciedo also had a decent cup of coffee originally too. How much of this has been on the major league staff failing to make adjustments throughout the course of the season? In the last 5 years they've either been terrible or they've lost to the absolute one team they could not lose to (Twins and Tigers). Viciedo and Beckham were both guys that were in the majors the year after they joined the organization, so I wouldn't say the White Sox had much to do with their development. Maybe they weren't poisoned. In fact, very little previous failure probably hurt them. Semien hit some homers in some September games but his walk and strikeout and on base rate were beyond horrible. Maybe the new hitting coach with a total organizational approach will help. It can't be much worse.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:02 AM) Uh no they dont. I cant recall a single paper where a teacher went "Well Badger, you had the best ideas, best argument, but you misspelled a word so I gave you an F." And even better, once you get to a certain level, someone proof reads all your s***. Unless now we are saying the editor is more important than the author??? But hey, if you want to show off a bunch of spelling bee awards, thats your call. Like I said, Ive never cared about spelling, never will. Say Im bad at it, I dont care lol. I agree. The smartest person I have ever met in my life is one of the worst spellers you could imagine. Some spellings are beyond ridiculous but he spells as it sounds, and he has always used the same line as you, spelling correctly is for his secretaries. Spelling is about memorization,not intelligence.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 08:26 AM) I agree to some extent. Draft position is less important when you have good scouting. Boston has drafted real well despite having success on the field----and money to spend. Hopefully Hahn has people he can rely on not so much for the 3rd pick but for later rounds. It's not just scouts. It's the developmental people. The Sox seem to be able to get pitchers, at least relievers, to the major leagues fairly easily. Hitters always seem to struggle. When was the last time a White Sox position prospect came up and actually looked like he had a clue at the plate? One thing that always seems a given is a ridiculously high strikeout rate with a ridiculously low walk rate and other numbers that seem to be, at best, ordinary. It makes me wonder, are they having problems identifying guys who can be successful offensively, or is their developmental team just lacking. Every team has it's busts, but does Courtney Hawkins hit like a pitcher with power in A+ ball if he is with the Cardinals?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 02:05 PM) Or he can just start nickpicking at one small part out of an entire body of discussion when he knows that he is wrong... ? Where am I wrong?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) I believe Wites speaking in terms of value. You can pay Jimenez 12-15 mil for 4 years and gamble each and every year for which Jimenez you'll get. Or you can take Paulino for 1.75 mil over one year with a team friendly option. If Paulino stays healthy and Jimenez has one of his bad years then Paulino outperforms Jimenez. Obviously there is ifs but it's far from inconceivable. He can move the goalposts like he usually does when he realizes he is wrong, but the question was chances Paulino outperforms Jimenez this year and he said 50/50. I just point out that cannot be based on any logic. Performance has nothing to do with money. If they were the same price, and you had to choose one, would you even consider Paulino? From what he wrote, it's a coin flip.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:38 PM) His career ERA as a starter is 4.45, whereas it's above 9 as a reliever. He had an ERA of 4.26 as a starter in 2011 and he was absolutely filthy in 7 starts in 2012 with an ERA of 1.67. There is plenty of logic to figure that he will do well. Regardless of any of this, Paulino is the far, far better investment. Jimenez is younger, healthier, and has a better track record. Other than that, you argument basing it 50/50 on 37 innings 2 years ago before major surgery, makes perfect sense.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) Link IMO, there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting to play. That said, I do think Thibs has a decent reason to sit him in crunch time. I like Boozer more than most, but I'm pretty sure I could score at will against him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) No, I actually happen to like Jimenez, especially his stuff, but he's been an incredibly inconsistent pitcher over his career and he's just as likely (if not moreso) to put up an ERA over 5 as he is to put one up under 3.50. They both have a lot of warts. But Paulino who has a career ERA right at about 5.00, should have a decent chance to outperform him even though he missed last season and only pitched 37 innings in 2012. Again, you are not basing this on any logic. If it really was 50/50, either Paulino would have received A LOT more money than the White Sox gave him, or Jimenez would have to settle for A LOT less than he is going to be paid.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) I don't necessarily agree just because Paulino has been incredibly productive as a starter before. However, if you were to ask who is more likely to stay healthy, I'd give Jimenez about a 95% chance of doing that. He is coming off surgery. He has pitched 37 innings since Ozzie Guillen was managing the White Sox. Jimenez has been far more productive in the past as a starter. Because you are not a fan of Jimenez, you discount that and ignore all of Paulino's warts. It might work out the way you claim, but your conclusion is only based on your personal bias. Any reasonable person would conclude that the odds are far longer than 50/50 Paulino outperforms Jimenez. 5 of the past 6 seasons, Jimenez has put up at least a 3.2 WAR. Paulino has had one season where he had more than half of that.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) I wish Ervin Santana and Jimenez would just sign already so this moot and useless conversation ends. Chances Paulino outperforms Ubaldo Jimenez this year?? Paulino may be good he may be awful. He pitched 37 innings in 2012 and 0 in 2013, and before that he was pretty awful. For anyone to suggest he has a decent chance to outperform Jimenez in 2014, is not basing it on anything you really should base anything upon. Just basing it on because they say so.

I don't understand how anyone can say PSH wasn't a highly recognized actor/director. Maybe on your personal level it was true, but he was a highly decorated , very famous. His death was the lead story on network news.

He only stayed in rehab 10 days according to TMZ.

LOL. The Cubs sent a lackey on the radio today to float the possibility of the rooftop owners making them leave Wrigley.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 31, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) 28-24 Broncos. Seattle scores a late touchdown, attempts an onside kick with 4 minutes left, Denver recovers, and The Sheriff kills the clock. Jeff George is back?

Am I the only one that doesn't particularly care for these outdoor games? I haven't been to a game, but I would imagine the sightlines aren't as good as indoors. And I think camera angles are better indoors. It was fun the first time, but IMO the NHL is overdoing it.

Dunn will probably wind up hitting around .200 with around a .750 OPS. Not worth the money but neither is sitting on his couch eating Cheetos or playing for another team. He had a 3 month stretch where he was pretty good. If he had 5 months like this, the people wanting to dump him would probably want to bring him back. June .274/.402/.589 July .277/.388/.470 August .267/.355/.438 He is worth keeping around because there is a chance he can be helpful and there is a chance someone may give you something for him, if only slight salary relief if the White Sox are not contending. Releasing Dunn is no chance.