Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) We also have a pretty deep bullpen right now too...Jones, Belisario, Downs, Lindstrom, Leesman/Veal/Surkamp, Petricka, Webb. Other guys like Rienzo could see time there as well if they don't get an immediate rotation spot. If we're getting to a guy like Troncoso again...there's a good chance it happened because we traded people away, even perhaps more obviously so than last year when he took Crain's spot and then shortly thereafter Thornton was traded. It is deep with unknowns and mediocrity. One thing I am shocked about is how many decent free agents, still haven't signed. There are still a few out there that are should get 8 figures a year. Has there ever been this many this close to the start of spring training?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) BTW who cares if the 5th spot guys are terrible? Probably the entire bullpen. Just my guess. That's the other thing. The better your rotation is, the less taxing and exposing it is on your bullpen. I don't agree with you about Dunn, might as well see what he can do one more time, but I don't get why so many people want to see not just bad starters but more of guys like Troncoso as a byproduct.

Again, if the only other option was moving, why wouldn't the Cubs just buy the rooftop owners out? In the end it would save them a lot of money. The Cubs anywhere else suddenly have the White Sox attendance issues. If Ricketts moved the Cubs, he would have to be considered the worst owner in the history of Chicago sports.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) Which is why in the past year we've traded away 4 (and 1/2 if you count Jesse Crain's corpse). Therefore, you shouldn't be opposed to adding more.

If the White Sox have too many good pitchers, there are 29 teams that will take them off their hands.

It looks like Bronson Arroyo is going to get the same contract as Scott Kazmir. I'm not advocating the Sox signing Arroyo, but it does show you prices are dropping. Would anyone really want Kazmir over Arroyo now even with Arroyo's advanced age.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) I absolutely agree, and I think that Davidson has the biggest bust potential out of anyone the Sox acquired this offseason. I also think, total value considered (offensively and defensively), he has the highest ceiling of any player the Sox acquired too. My point is Charlotte may not be the worst place for him to hang for a while. I do think some are expecting too much too soon. All 3 of the guys I mentioned did have some early success at the major league level, but then it all went wrong. Very wrong. I think it would behoove the Sox to make sure he is ready, at least to handle some failure, before he is handed the job, no matter what the other options at 3B happen to be.

Davidson may be a great player, but here are 3 former White Sox 3B who were at least at one time ranked higher than Davidson ever was: Josh Fields #45 Brent Morel #85 Mark Teahen #85 There are no guarantees.

Is Beckman really in a position to take shots against anyone? Beckman took a shot at rival Northwestern, which picked up four players from Illinois, including three four-star recruits. "We signed four players out of the 'state of Chicago,' as we call it," Beckman said at a news conference. "That was more than the actual team that is in Chicago."

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 09:10 AM) Completely off topic but Jackson has to be the leader in mentions on this site per games played in a White Sox uniform. So guys who have never played for the Sox would not be eligible. Between the two trades (acquiring and trading), his terrible signing with the Cubs and comparisons to every #3, #4 and #5 starter, he has to be in the lead in his 30 games with the Sox. I agree. And for all the terribleness attached to his name, with the mention of the Cubs, and the Daniel Hudson love, sometimes it's lost that EJax was pretty good with the White Sox.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 6, 2014 -> 08:15 AM) Yes, in the absolute worst case scenario, that's exactly what I'd do, because Gillaspie costs nothing. In all likelihood, you'd be able to get a live arm for him. Do you understand what worst case scenario means, or are you going to go around trumpeting the idea that I would DFA Gillaspie if it saved me 50¢ on a hamburger at McDonalds? Because that would be wrong. I'd obviously never do it for less than $1.50. You seem like the type that would get eat money just because the player sucks without trying to save any or get something in return. You'd have probably eaten the contract for Mark Teahen and, just like that, the White Sox don't have Webb or Jaye. That does not appease ownership and it does not appease basic economic theory. While I agree, eating money isn't always the right thing to do, Teahen is a bad example. He didn't net the White Sox those players. Edwin Jackson did. If anything, including him and his entire contract, cost the White Sox players.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 05:23 PM) A lot of young catchers are lefty or switch hitters, we'll need one of those soon. Also, if we move Tank to DH next year, or dump him, we will have an opportunity to fill that with a lefty OF, preferably one with power. The more I look at it, the more I think Colby Rasmus will be ours in FA next year, if we really want him. The Yankees have ARod back on the dole next year, don't have any major salary coming off the books, and need 2B,3B and SS if Jeter retires, and they'll need righty power more than lefty. Boston's loaded with lefty OF's as are the Dodgers. The feared-by-some biggest spenders likely won't even be involved. JR is buddies with LaRussa. LaRussa hates Rasmus as a player and a person. I'm sure the White Sox know all about him. I doubt very much they will pay decent money for him.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 06:15 PM) The article says the hats will be worn during batting practice, spring training and select games during the regular season. The hats would look terrible with their normal black/white uniforms, so one can assume they'll be bringing back the '83 uniforms again this year. They are going to most likely be wearing them with black unless they change the spring training uniform to 1983, and I really doubt they go to a matching uniform for BP. But it does make sense. If only for jersey and '83 era logo merchandise sales.I guess the players really liked them. I wonder when a team will go back to a pullover full-time. It is going to happen.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) 10 starts in a row similiar stats. I have not seen one example yet. You have 30 AAA 2013 staffs to chose from to cherry pick exactly as I did all you want . Surely you can prove to me Rienzo is a dime a dozen. I'm not saying Rienzo is guareenteed any future success as a ML either. Just show me those 12 2013 starters AAA starters who had a similiar 10 game stretch. The old I'm not saying he's going to be good, but I will argue and tell you that you are wrong if you say any different routine. A 10 game stretch in AAA. That is what you are basing this on? I think he can be a decent relief pitcher some day. As a starter, I don't think he will make it. My opinion. Maybe it is wrong. We will see.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) He was good in AAA. Among young pitchers at AAA or above, I would say he is the 2nd most likely to carve out a career as a starting pitcher, next to Erik Johnson. I think his stuff will translate better than Surkamp's to the MLB level. That said, I still prefer to start the season with Paulino in the rotation. I don't have a stance on Rienzo. I am not saying he is good or he is not good because I don't know what he is, and you don't either. Quite different from earlier in the day when you had no faith in him but do in a guy who hasn't pitched in 2 years. If you have no faith in someone (which to me means you don't think he's very good) and admittedly don't know what he is, why are you arguing? I'm sure most can. Please be aware that I've never suggested Surkamp or Rienzo are going to be good, merely that they are talented or semi talented 6th starters for the Sox, and the only guy I have any sort of faith in among that final 3 is Paulino.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) And yet, none of their peripherals are close to Rienzo's. Looking at just minor league ERA is like looking at just batting average. And Rienzo was older at the more advanced levels than a typical prospect. So you are now saying Rienzo is good correct? Earlier in the thread you wouldn't commit to that. Obviously, things have changed.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:53 PM) I gave you a similiar opportunity to cherry pick since you said he was a dime a dozen . You have all of AAA for every major league team in 2013 to do so. So you refuse to back up your point . That's OK I expected that. Just look at Charlotte's staff. Jason Berken had a lower ERA. Charlie Leesman had a lower ERA. Check out Dylan Axelrod's minor league career. It is quite impressive.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) $40. And the key word is WILLING, dude. Do you understand what that means? I'd have preferred him at $7 million. You harp on the same points over and over even as people prove you wrong. And his ERA at AAA was 5.69 and was 4.65 with the White Sox with a K rate near 6. Rienzo's CAREER ERA in the minors is 3.46 with a K/9 of 9.6. You cherry pick all you want, but signs point towards Rienzo actually having a lick of stuff. 25 year olds in AAA getting guys out is nothing to hang your hat on. Rienzo isn't special. You said so yourself a few pages back.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) Of course, this breaks down when you use it on international signings. With a guy coming out of a U.S. high school being drafted moderately high...there's good film on him and he's been playing at the level of U.S. high school competition. If he isn't up in 6 years, then yes, something went wrong. However, a guy coming out of say, Brazil, or anywhere else like that...they have not necessarily been facing that same talent level even at a comparable age. They may, for example, then spend 2-3 years playing in the Dominican Summer League for that reason before they are even ready to attempt rookie ball. That is a consequence of the lack of coaching and development they might have had available to them in that country. What's the difference between a 16 or 17 year old in the US vs. a foreign player the same age? To get signed they have to be somewhat advanced unless Dave Wilder is involved. I would say some should be more advanced because most play baseball all year instead of just a few months like many in the US.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) Just to expand more on what I said about Rienzo earlier his last 10 starts at AAA before his call up he went 5-3 with a 1.64 ERA . I have no idea what Dick meant by a dime a dozen in referring to Rienzo ,but I would like to challenge him to find a dozen starters in AAA with similiar numbers. 10 starts 66 inings pitched 69 K's 24 BB and that 1.64 ERA also holding opponents to a .192 BA. I will even give him the whole year at AAA to find a simliar stretch of 10 games for a dozen AAA starting pitchers. You cannot use Erik Johnson since he is with the Sox. You really shouldn't cherry pick minor league stats to determine major league success. Do you know Lance Broadway had a 2.75 ERA in AA as a 22 year old.?Did you happen to see Nestor Molina's stats when he was acquired? What matters is how it translates to MLB. Rienzo doesn't have great stuff or great command. He will soon be 26 so you would think the learning curve is flattening out. He may have a decent career as a relief pitcher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) I don't know? We'll have to see what Saltalamacchia does. Not everything has to be a stance. I was quite indifferent on Saltalamacchia. I said many times "if they sign him, great, if they don't, great." Just because I was or was not at one time willing to spend doesn't make it the right move, nor does it make it the wrong move. I was not nearly as adament about adding Saltalamacchia as the contingent here is about adding a mid rotation starter, and at least Saltalamacchia would have been a significant upgrade on the Sox current catching situation. You simply can't say that about Jimenez or Santana. $44 million over 4 years for a 29 year old catcher is fairly adament, when we are advocating 3 years $39 million for a 30 year old pitcher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) Show me where I said that. I've said guys can make it to the majors in 4 years and you have a pretty good idea of what you have and whether or not they will make the majors. That does not make them release candidates. Sorry, not release candidates, after thoughts. And if a HS kid is picked in 2014, according to you if they aren't up by 2019 they probably will never be with the White Sox. Here it is: I absolutely think that Hawkins could help the Sox in 2 years. It all depends on how well he performs. The fact is, if these guys aren't helping or close to helping the major league team in 4 years, they're basically after thoughts. Do you really think anyone in the White Sox front office views Jared Mitchell as a potential starting player down the road? But he went to college, so he should have been up in 3 years, right? If the high schooler they take in the 1st and/or 2nd round this year isn't up by the end of the decade, odds are pretty good they'll never be up with the White Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) [/b] And the odds are pretty good that Jimenez and Santana won't be good players and will have bad contracts during their course of their deals, based on some of the pretty bad years they have had very recently. That's were I disagree, at least with Jimenez. His problems were more mechanical. He straightened that out and was great. Not as great as he was in Colorado, but still great. And the White Sox employ a pitching coach that really works on the exact thing Jimenez has struggled with.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) Yes, and that's why we're totally oblivious to the roughly 6 year, $120 million offer they made to Tanaka. You are the one who wants to spend frivolous money on players like Santana, Jimenez, and Hamilton. Says the guy who wanted to spend $44 million for 4 years for a 29 year old catcher who has had one good year.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) So they'd just kick someone out of the rotation and say HERE YOU GO, TAKE A SHOT AT STARTING! SUCK IT JOHN! This move might, on some level, make sense next year. It does not make sense this year. Why would it make sense next year but not this?