Dick Allen

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Oct 25, 2007 -> 06:21 PM) Well, I know it is only one start, but that game that Masset pitched vs. the Cubs showed his potential. Im also not saying that he will, but he has the stuff to beat out Floyd and if he has a strong spring training i just wouldnt be surprised if he won a rotational spot if we only return MB/Vaz/Danks/(Count or Garland). Floyd was still getting hit pretty hard in his "good" outings and still has a lot to prove. Basically what I am trying to say is that I dont think the Sox organization is going to give the 5th starter job to Floyd without a battle, and I believe taht some guys we have could really make a push for that opening So you ignore all his previous minor league results and base your opinion on one start against a team that had never faced him,without one of their best players in the line-up on a 45 degree day with the wind howling in? His minor league record is 32-49 with a 4.53 ERA and a 1.45 WHIP. He's probably a mediocre spring training away from having to look for a real job.

I once had x-rays on my thumb after a carpet staple got stuck in it. (Its a long story). I was told I had 3 fractures in my thumb that had healed. I never knew I had one. Its the only broken bone I'm aware of.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Oct 24, 2007 -> 06:58 PM) Why is John Denks considered to be a prize prospect ? He doesn't blow people away, and while I think he'll get better, am I wrong to think he's, at best, a #3 starter a few seasons down the road ? What am I missing - why is Denks considered a prized pitcher when acquired by the White Sox ? Because KW said so, and he was the GM when the White Sox won the WS so he is never wrong. There's a lot to be positive about with Danks, and there are some red flags. Most pitchers struggle when they are his age, and at least at the beginning of the year, he had a nice killer instinct, and attacked hitters. Running out of gas when he did has to be a concern. 130 IP on the year, and the last 40 or so were painful. He also stopped attacking hitters. Did facing him a few times let them figure him out? I certainly don't think he'll be an ace, but what's wrong with a #3? There are a lot of teams that would love to have a #3. I think it will take a while for him to reach that status though. For 2008, I just don't see how he suddenly is going to be able to give you 175-200 innings. Its one of the reasons trading Garland will be a huge gamble. There will be a ton of innings that need to be picked up, and the in house candidates to pick them up are definitely questionable at best as far as having much major league success in 2008.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 24, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) If Matsuzaka comes out and for 3 of the next 4 years is lights out, puts up a sub 3.25 ERA in the AL East and pushes 20 wins, then no one will care if he struggled a bit his first year, the overall evaluation will be "He was worth it". If he gives you the same performance every year, then it's gonna be a lot more disappointing for the Red Sox. But here's the 2 other issues; pitchers his age usually don't get that much better, and pitchers usually have an advantage over batters the first time they see them, which for DK was this year. People here were banking on Vazquez improving and he is 4 years older than Dice-K. They said after last year he just has to get comfortable. For a guy who "struggled", 15 wins, a 4.40 ERA and 201 k's in 204 IP are pretty good. Its not like he's an old man. He's the same age as Wasserman. He's a year younger than Garland. I don't know how "dissappointing" he will be if he does the same thing he's doing and the Red Sox continue to win. Granted, what they paid to get him was a lot, but remember, he's only getting about half of it. He signed a 6 year $52 million contract.

I predict the Florida Marlins make a huge push for ARod if he opts out. Its home for him, and its the one place he could make the biggest box office difference. It will help get a new park built and its not like the Marlins have a huge payroll. They are the one franchise that can gain the most by acquiring him.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Oct 24, 2007 -> 07:52 AM) Thought I'd start this up to get people thoughts on this. B-Mac to Texas for Nick Masset and John Danks. Right now, if you're KW, would you still make this deal, based on talent? FWIW here are the numbers of all 3 for 2007; B-Mac - 5-10, 4.87 ERA, 59K's and 48BB's. Danks - 6-13, 5.50 ERA, 109K's and 54BB's. Masset - 2-3, 7.09 ERA, 21K's and 26BB's. This trade obviously hasn't worked out for either side yet. I was very much against this trade when it was made. Right now if you made the trade, it basically would be McCarthy for Danks because Masset is out of options and I don't think you could reasonably assume he would make the team. Whether I would do it or not would be a decision left up to the medical people concerning BMac's injury. If he is or can fully heal without it becoming a chronic problem, I still would rather have him than Danks.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 21, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) I just saw that and was about to post it. Here's Rosenthal's article: While Byrd may have had a legit reason to take HGH, wouldn't it have been a better idea for him to come out about it a year or so ago instead of the distraction it now causes?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 21, 2007 -> 08:27 AM) See, this is the f***ed up part about steroids in baseball. I mean, clearly there are some guys who use it and as a result go from hitting forty homeruns to seventy+ -- but how do you judge a guy who uses to recover from an injury? Or who uses and goes from throwing a 75 mph fastball to throwing 82? This news disappoints me. Not really a surprise, but it's definitely disappointing. I think it means all bets are off as far as speculating who cheats or has cheated and who has played by the rules. If Paul Byrd cheats, it makes everyone a suspect. This news is really a shame. I think there are a ton of pitchers who have used perfomance enhancers. I'm starting to really believe if everyone who has cheated where to be suspended, we would be looking at replacement players level baseball.

Its now being reported Paul Byrd bought $25,000 worth of HGH from 2002-2005. I sure hope God didn't tell him to cheat.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) OK, I'll try one last time... Players who want to be regarded as the greatest ever and also want ridiculous blockbuster deals need to play well in the post-season. Therefore, those 29 ABs (or actually, all of his 96 playoff ABs in NY) are weighed a heck a lot more heavily in in my book. You think that's unfair? Well, if A-Rod wants a ridiculous $300 million in guaranteed money (or even another $250 million deal), I'm going to raise the bar ridiculously high and demand that he be god-like in the playoffs. If A-Rod wants to $100 million more than anybody else in the league, he'd better be head-and-shoulders above everybody else on the field in October. He wasn't even the best YANKEE in the playoffs. Kind of like how A-Rod's "career .280 BA" that you keep bringing up is padded with numbers from 7-10 years ago in Seattle. What's more relevant to A-Rod's projected play as he enters his mid-30's: what he did 7-10 years ago entering the prime of his career or what he did over the past few years on the wrong side of 30? Are you going to try to convince me that Frank's stats from the '90s are a better indication of how he'll play in his 40's than how he's played in Oakland and Toronto recently? In New York, A-Rod hit .245 in 96 playoff ABs. That's not terrible considering the level of pitching he's facing but, again, you can get that type of production out of a player for 1/3 of the cost. Even if we consider that A-Rod has a career .280 playoff average, Jeter (who isn't demanding $250-$300 million) trumps him with a career .309 average (there's your large sample size). Even if I have to move him to 3B, I'd easily take five years of Jeter and somebody like Rowand at a combined $35 mil per over five years of A-Rod at $30 mil per. It's not even close. Don't get me wrong: I agree that A-Rod's awesome and that IF THE MONEY WERE REASONABLE (say, 5/150), I'd love to have him in a Sox uniform. But that's the problem. He's going to want another 10/250-300 deal. The Sox would probably need a $150 million payroll right away to stay competitive with Pay-Rod hawging all of the funds and would have no financial flexibility for the next decade. And even if JR and & Co. COULD swing that, you're putting all of your eggs in one basket with a $300 mil player. If he slumps, gets injured, or his skills decline significantly, you're screwed. ARod hit .320 with an OPS over 1000 in the postseason for the Yankees in 2004. I would also say he's just as good if not better player now than he was when he was successful 8 or 9 years ago for the Mariners. So its really not like comparing Frank Thomas now with Frank Thomas in 1994.

AAA pitching coach becomes bullpen coach. I like the move. I really think you need another pitching coach in the bullpen these days.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 01:36 PM) I can't tell if that's just a really bad strawman argument or if your reading comprehension needs serious work. You're whole argument for not paying ARod is based on 29 ABs. You admitted to ignoring his previous success. You also omitted his .267 avg. this year because it wouldn't make your argument look as strong. Once again, despite his horrendous postseasons in 2005 and 2006, he still has a career avg. of .280 in the postseason. Given the small sample sizes each season, he's obviously had some pretty good success other years..330 average in 103 ABs. I know there's its probably 1000 to 1 the Sox sign him. Providing he stays healthy, he will never be a "liability" on the field.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) I can see why some people have some hesitation. Boras is looking for a 10 to 12 year contract for a 32 year old ball player at $30M per year. ARod my be great for 6 to 7 years ... maybe. But beyond that, the odds are that he'd be a major burden toward the end of the contract. I wouldn't doubt Boras will get someone to come up with $30 million a year. I just don't see how he's going to get the length he desires. I don't think there is any team out there willing to commit to that figure for a 40-45 year old, no matter how great of condition ARod is in at present. 8 years and $240-$250 million with escalators is possible.

What's ridiculous is ARod's postseason struggles are based on 29 at bats. 29 at bats have convinced someone that a guy with ARod's track record, can't handle playoff pressure.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) IN BOSTON (you know, one of those high-pressure environments) Manny has been overwhelmingly golden in the post-season. Oh, and Manny isn't making $250 million from his current contract either. Nor is Scott Boras asking for $300 million and touting Manny as the greatest to ever play the game. When Manny signed his contract, the biggest in baseball history at the time I believe, he was a career .223 postseason hitter. Hardly clutch. Since, he's been outstanding, although I doubt you would ever hear "ARod being ARod" . The fact is and it is a fact, ARod is a better baseball player than anyone else. Everytime he takes the field, he is the best player on it. There's just as good of a chance ARod hits .400 in the postseason as .150 from here on out. You disagree, and that's fine. Maybe JR should try to sign Brian Doyle and Bucky Dent.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) That money is negligible in comparison to their contracts so, again, I don't see what your point is. Uh, no I don't. You're heavily weighing numbers from several years ago. He's been mediocre-to-bad over the past few years. Speaking of "playing on the biggest stage", look at what Manny has done since going to Boston (easily the second biggest stage and not far behind NY) in the post-season. Talk about pressure... those guys hadn't won crap since 1918 when he got there. That was probably a HIGHER-stress environment than NY. Compare what Manny has done for the Red Sox in the playoffs to what A-Rod has done for the Yankees and it's not even close. Do you think that anybody in Boston would trade Manny's post-season numbers for A-Rod's regular-season MVPs? Neither do I. I never said that he was. I simply said that he has a history of having difficulty playing under pressure. That's not the same as somebody who NEVER plays well under pressure. That's true. I'm sure that everyone here remembers how freaking bad Vlad was in the '05 ALCS. He was clearly pressing, swinging at all kinds of crap outside of the strike zone. Sox pitching wasn't giving him anything to hit. But it's not like Vlad had a ton of protection in that lineup. Meanwhile, A-Rod's '04-'06 Yankees offenses were some of the best collections of offensive talent EVER, and it's not like he wasn't getting pitches to hit. What's A-Rod's excuse? Geez, Andy Pettite could've hit better than him in '05 and '06. Look, I'm not saying that A-Rod is a choke or that he's going to be a mediocre-to-bad player in the post-season from here on out. But he hasn't done crap in the playoffs since the '04 ALDS and hasn't been consistently good there since 2000 in Seattle. And this is supposedly the best player of his generation and perhaps the best player EVER? Uh, I don't think so. A-Rod's awesome for sure, but you can't reasonably ask for $300 million and the "Best Player Ever" title with some of the recent post-season performances he's had. From a hitting perspective, I'll take Manny over him in a second. Funny you use Manny Ramirez as an example. Manny hit .056 in the 1999 playoffs. He hit under .200 in the 1997 WS. Using the same philosophy with him you use with ARod, if you were in a position of decision for the Red Sox you would not have signed him.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 10:31 AM) maybe Hahn will balk at being forced to accept Tony as his manager instead of picking his own guy. then the sox start slowly, KW gets the ziggy and Hahn gets the corner office. That's my hope. Sorry, Kenny. Take Andrew sisco, Nick Masset, Lance Broadway, Jerry Owens and Danny Richar and get out of town. I don't know how you would balk at your first GM job with one of the winningest teams in baseball in the past 20 years, because of the manager, a guy who I don't like, but a guy who only has less managerial wins than John McGraw and Connie Mack.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 10:36 AM) Rick is a great guy, extremely smart, and is an expert on contracts, labor relations, among other things. I am very surprised he hasn't been snapped up a while ago. It would be a big loss but I can understand how he'd want the Cardinals job. I agree. Its one of the premier jobs IMO. He was smart enough not to even bother with the Pittsburgh job, if this doesn't happen for him, something will soon enough. Listening to him, he's pretty impressive. What happens a lot when guys like Hahn leave to a new team is they usually are interested in a few guys from their old organization. If Hahn gets this job, I wonder who he would try to get from KW.

Good to see they are using the money saved from sending Iguchi and Mackowiak packing at least on something that could be productive. Its a far better way to spend than paying Mike Myers to make a few meaningless appearances.

I really think when and if Hahn gets another job, its really going to hurt the White Sox more than you would think an assitant GM leaving would hurt. I would rank Hahn the second brightest individual in the organization, second to JR.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) Um, well, players aren't payed per playoff game. And the last time that I checked, A-Rod's current contract is about five times that of Konerko's, so I'm not really sure what your point is. (1) Before the strawman arguments get out of hand, my point was that A-Rod was a "liability" in the '05 and '06 post-seasons only. That wasn't meant as a general statement. (2) The Yankees didn't need A-Rod to make the playoffs in 2005 or 2006. He was supposed to put them over the hump (or at least help them get past the ALDS) and he failed to deliver. I'm not saying that he's supposed to hit .400 and drive in three or four runs each game, but 30 and 130 points below the Mendoza line in consecutive playoff series completely is unacceptable for ANY marquee player, especially the supposed "best player in the game." (3) I understand what you're saying with the "small sample size" comment, but you have to understand that elite pro athletes (especially those that make $25 million/year) are EXPECTED to deliver in the "small sample size" known as the playoffs. Not every elite player is expected to play off-the-charts well in every playoff series, but you have to deliver at least decent results in the big games. Since being traded to the Yankees, A-Rod has hit over .270 in ONE of five playoff series... and he's hit below .135 in TWO of them. And all four of those teams would've made the playoffs without him. I give him credit for having some good post-seasons in Seattle where he was in Griffey and Edgar's shadows, but he wasn't the same after signing that blockbuster contract and playing in the high-stress environment of the Bronx. Those two factors raised expectations significantly and I'm not sure that he was able to deal with the pressure effectively. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have post-season success in Chicago but, again, one has to wonder if he's going to have trouble again being "The Man" and delivering in the post-season after his next $200+ million contract. Um well, players do get paid for the playoffs. They get paid from a pool of money which gets divided into shares. The players vote who gets what kind of share. Timo and Konerko each got paid exactly the same for the 2005 playoffs. They even each get paid a little more for winning the division. Obviously, ARod would be expected to perform well, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. You take a couple of years of ARod in the playoffs and use those as gospel. But he has hit .280 in the postseason. If he's so awful and a choker, the guy is playing on the biggest stage, a stage where that the ace of the 2005 world champions couldn't handle, winning 2 MVPs with them, under the scrutiny of the largest contract by far of all time, and he plays well enough to opt out and get an even bigger deal. He's no choker. Everyone has tough postseasons. Even Babe Ruth hit .118 in the 1922 WS. Mickey Mantle hit below .200 3 WS in a row. You cherry-picked the .270 because he hit .267 this year, correct? He's a .280 career playoff hitter. If a team had the money to pay him and not ruin the rest of their team, it would be crazy to chose not to add him based on a couple of postseason series.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 06:49 PM) Question for everyone...do you consider Barry Bonds to be a liability in the playoffs? Obviously not if he is healthy. His struggles were notorious his first 4 or 5 playoff appearances, although he did draw some walks. The year they went to the WS he hit a ton of homers IIRC. I think he would be walked a ton if he ever is in the playoffs again.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 06:20 PM) Liabilities! Haven't you heard -- Walter Payton never scored a touchdown in the Super Bowl. Peyton Manning has only won one Super Bowl -- and he had to go up against Rex Grossman to do it! Notice the similarities between Payton and Peyton? And those guys you cite? They're all liabilities! How many times did Elway lose the Super Bowl. He couldn't handle the pressure. There's no doubt ARod had a couple of horrible postseasons. But to even think he can't handle pressure is absurd. For 7 seasons the guy has had more pressure on him than anyone, and he will have 3 MVPs? Not bad.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Paul Konerko doesn't make $25 million a year. I don't know about you, but I expect Boston-era Manny Ramirez playoff numbers for $200+ million guaranteed. If Konerko and ARod were teammates, their playoff pay would be the same. The point I was making is the sample sizes are too small to base a guy as someone who can't handle it on 1 or 2 postseasons, especially if he had already put up pretty decent numbers under the same circumstances 3 or 4 other times.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Oct 19, 2007 -> 06:02 PM) Uh, yeah, because a failure is much better than a liability. Good one! Since you're incapable of understanding them, I don't bother anymore. I am, but you can't hit 30 and 170 points below the freaking Mendoza line in the playoffs in consecutive years if you're making $20+ million a year. Some people have a difficult time performing in pressure situations. Is A-Rod one of those people? I'm not sure at this point and I wouldn't want to spend $300 million to find out. He played in NY and will win another MVP this season. Frank Thomas, the guy everyone says is the best hitter in White Sox history has 2 playoff series with 0 hits. Konerko got 0 hits in 2000. Barry Bonds struggled in the playoffs. The burden ARod has had with size of his contract, and how he's performed speak volumes. If it was the 7th game of the WS and the White Sox were down a run with the bases loaded and 2 out in the bottom of the ninth inning, I would personally love to have ARod batting. Derek Jeter is known as a huge clutch guy, even he struggled this post season batting .176. In 2001 Jeter hit .118 in the ALCS and .148 in the WS. Even Mr. October, Reggie Jackson is only about a .220 hitter in post season play. One thing is for sure, ARod, if the rest of the roster isn't compromised due to his salary, would certainly help you make the playoffs.