Dick Allen

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 08:42 AM) At what age does a man need to be responsible for his own actions? If someone struggles and is too proud to ask for help, how receptive is he going to be when you offer it? The Sox seemed prepared to offer him the help anyhow, and he is b****ing about winter ball. I mean, we have super stars playing winter ball, and this guy thinks he's beyond it. Well then they should be consistent with all the players. Their best players should also be personally responsible for their shortcomings. Anderson is still not 100% physically, but why is everything his fault when in 2006 when Buerhle and Freddy Garcia were both pretty out of shape it wasn't their fault? Ozzie blamed Allen Thomas. Of course, it wasn't Thomas' fault that Uribe was fat, but I digress. Blame Anderson for a bad 2006, but I blame the White Sox for setting him up to fail, with no reasonable back up plan. Telling him that they don't care what he hits, then crying that he's not hitting.They had no back up plan. As for all the talk that he was a bad teammate, I seem to recall that when AJ got sucker punched, the 2 players that had his back the most were Pods who was right on the play, but I still give him credit, and Brian Anderson. We here all the "inside info" about Anderson watching TV not working on improving, he's a bad teammate etc. If that is 100% accurate, what is he still doing in the organization?

If the Yankees pick up some of Damon's contract it could be a good deal. Fields is not a LF. Considering they aren't having him work on it this winter speaks volumes IMO. Fields does make some great plays at 3rd, and some horrid ones. I'm not all that high on him, but I do find him adequate defensively, with what seems like a desire to improve. I'd like to see him make more contact. I see him in the on deck circle with a short stroke that gets very long when he gets to the plate.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 3, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) I don't think Cora will get the job because he's the only candidate without connections to the Pirates new front office. It will probably drag through next week due to the GM meetings. If Cora leaves, in my opinion Guillen will go outside of his circle for a bench coach. The hiring of Jeff Cox signals a shift in direction and I think it's a good shift. Sox brass are examining and questioning everything, as they should. Guillen mentioned Rene Lachmann as a strong candidate when they hired Cox. Cora must not think he has a reasonable shot at any better jobs if he really wants the Pirates job. Leyland was able to parlay success there into other options, but unless they evaluate players better, perhaps open the checkbook a little wider, this job appears to be a dead end. Of course, if Ozzie is still around when Cora loses the job (if he's hired) because they continue to lose, he probably will find a place for him on the coaching staff. So maybe that's what he's thinking. If a miracle occurs, he becomes a hot commodity, if not, he runs the show for a few years and comes back and does what he's been doing. Cora has gotten ripped a lot on this board, including by me mostly for some decisions he's made coaching 3rd base, but he does have more than a few people around baseball who think pretty highly of him. I would think he would want to hold out for a better job, because losing at Pittsburgh doesn't appear to get you more opportunities, whether that losing is the manager's fault or not.

21 points, 12 rebounds,3 blocks, 42 minutes. Not bad for a lazy, unfocused, out of shape joke.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) Why must you make stuff up to try and make a crappy point to begin with. I never said anything about him hitting .340, but when he was called up for good this season he out performed Coco Crisp for the same spot in the order they would both fill. Crisp not only costs too much, but he is way overrated by some, especially with how much people crap on Jerry. Check out the numbers, if you disagree so much, tell me why, instead of trying to fabricate my theories out of thin air. I did tell you. You are basing all of Owens success on one successful month in the major leagues. As I said before, on August 31 he was hitting .239 with an OPS of under .600. That is not good. I also told you maybe if he were a lot younger you may have some sort of point, but the guy will be 27 next February. Your claim that Owens is better than Crisp based on meaningless games vs. a guy where games do matter, both playing in different parks etc. is almost obnoxious. The other problem is Owens hits very few balls hard. I know the argument he's a leadoff hitter his job is to get on base, but in the AL with no pitcher batting before him, the leadoff guy bats with more men on base and in scoring position than they do in the NL. A big percentage of Owens hits are hits that advance runners only 1 base even with 2 out. Its not that I don't like Jerry Owens. I really was a big fan a couple of years ago, but he's not a regular player for a championship calibur team which the White Sox are trying to be. While you might not like Crisp's pricetag, its probably pretty reasonable considering Hunter may get $15 million a year and his OBP is under .330 for his career, and Rowand will get 8 figures and it wasn't too long ago he was such a bust KW had to get Carl Everett to play CF. If Crisp resembles the player he was in Cleveland, he's a bargain. If he's like he was in Boston, he's probably slightly overpriced, but USCF is a place where he could flourish. He's hit pretty well there the past 3 years.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 2, 2007 -> 05:37 PM) As usual, a discussion of JO can't be had without someone pointing to September and saying he's great, followed by someone pointing out his his June-August saying he's not. How about some solid overall perspective? Like the fact that after he got called up in early July, he improved each month in the majors? He was better in July (far better) than his early season callup... his August was better than that... and his Septmber was the best of them all. He hit .287 in July, .229 in August. He is a 4th OF at best. He'll be 27 years old on opening day. He's only 15 months younger than Coco Crisp. Its not like he's some 21 or 22 year old destined to improve.As of now he is a 1 month abberration. Without September, everyone would agree he sucks.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2007 -> 11:30 AM) Well that was when he was brought up for the second time. I guess since Furcal was not a rookie that was brought up twice thats why its not a good comparison. Coco Crisp is no better than Jerry numbers-wise and bringing the salary into the mix and its very lopsided towards Jerry. On August 31st, Jerry Owens was hitting .239 with a .597 OPS. He had a nice September, but he's not very good. Using your logic, he's pretty much a lock to hit .340, so why trade or sign anyone. Even Ozzie said if your not in contention, don't believe what you see in September.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) Hmmmm. So Post all star Jerry which is basically when he was brought back up. .278 .339 .327 27sb Crisp .268 .330 .382 28sb in twice the at bats You're kidding right? If post all star numbers are the end all, how do you come to any conclusion that Furcal is a good idea at $13 million? Keep in mind if the White Sox were playing for anything, Jerry would have been in Charlotte.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2007 -> 12:47 AM) Owens>Crisp Can we please drop it Maybe at some things. Not at baseball.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) No actually they didn't screw Anderson, unless you define a screwing as giving a young player an opportunity. He was more than a little over his head, and in large part it was due to Brian himself. All those things I have posted and others have posted. To succeed in the big leagues, you work harder than the other guy, you prepare harder than the other guy, you watch film so you know what guys tend to throw once you've swung at 2 bad pitches and are 0-2. Further it is absolutely untrue he did not get any shot in 2007. The same bad habits and the same "I'm talented and I'll just let my talent rise to the top" mentality bit him in the ass. Anderson is not a kid. Players have to take responsibility. Blaming the manager for Brian Anderson watching TV is mind boggling. The guy admitted to throwing a pity party in 2006 when things weren't working out, throwing a pity party in 2007 when things weren't working out, and now whining to the press. When exactly does this board lay the blame at the players feet when things don't work out? The team leaders are the guys who try to help Anderson, even Erstad was trying to take him under his wing in Tucson, show him how to be a pro, etc. But Brian does things Brian's way and if a TV show is more important than watching film, well that's Brian's way. I bet if you look at all the other 29 teams, you will see players unhappy when they leave. This is not unique to the White Sox. It happens. Conversely, there seems to be quite a number of players, marquee and otherwise, who seem to like it here and others who want to come back. Almost all the coaches are former White Sox players who seem to like it here, many players are unhappy when they're traded, so stuff like that goes both ways. The reason why players like Owens, Fields, Richar are (probably) in Sox plans and Brian Anderson (probably) isn't is in large part due to how they approach the game, how they prepare, all the things discussed here at length in this thread. It boils down to those guys wanting to get better and getting after it vs. pouting. If anyone got screwed, it was the fans and the good players on the team who deserve a better CF and teammate than Brian. BS he got a fair shot in 2007. His spring was just as good as Erstad's. Listening to Hawk talk about Erstad, you think they put Darin in the Hall of Fame already. They actually were saying he gets little bloop hits on purpose, and how unlucky the Sox were when other teams got those same kind of hits. And if they are b****ing and moaning Anderson is watching TV, well, they have made a pretty big investment in him, why don't they go turn the TV off, or better yet, since watching it is so bad, what is it doing in the clubhouse during spring training to begin with? And if his attitude was as bad as you claim, wasn't having him come to Chicago to begin the 2007 season a horrible idea? Maybe send him to Birmingham for an attitude adjustment if its so bad? Don't have him around for parts of 2 seasons and a full one and then b**** about his attitude. Do something about it when it first becomes a problem. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I doubt his attitude is any worse than a lot of White Sox.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 05:32 PM) On one level I agree, it doesn't matter. On another level it does, and that's the notion the White Sox screw their players and purposely derail their careers. Some of that type of stuff has been said in this thread and it's nonsense. Some young players do everything they can to get better and use every tool available to help them improve. Some don't, and Anderson is in that group. I like guys on the team who will fight through adversity, work hard, and do their best to prepare. The White Sox did screw Anderson. I don't think they screw players development on purpose. They do like to make players they get rid of look not as good as they are perceived. They threw him in CF on a defending championship team, when apparently he wasn't ready to handle it, and really had no plan B. Even when it appeared apparent he was in a little over his head, they did nothing. Ozzie was quoted in spring training 2006 that he didn't care what Anderson hit, what he worried about was Anderson's defense. Anderson performed fine defensively and didn't hit. Then all of a sudden, his hitting did matter. Anderson hit something like .250 the second half of the season, and was basically given no shot in 2007. Yet players that got on base about as often as him in Owens, Fields and Richar supposedly figure prominently in future plans. If the White Sox can't get him to watch film and work on his game instead of watching TV in the clubhouse, what does that say about the manager? What does it say about the team leaders? Anderson seems to be on the way out in typical fashion. I love the White Sox, but its amazing to me the high percentage of players that leave with bad feelings. For a while almost every player that left was pissed off at the organization, including the current manager. Then they finally got rid of a decent player who said nothing, Carlos Lee. The Sox were flabbergasted. They had to point out what a horrible LF he was although they would tell him he was good to make him happy, and had to let everyone know he slides into second like a pussy.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) Dude, did you even HEAR the interview. His comments make me no less inspired that the Bulls will get Kobe. He didn't say "we're not trading for Kobe" he said "we're kinda not doing anything at the moment." You can read that however you want, but it was not convincing nor should it end these conversations. I guarantee they are still discussing a deal. Whether it gets done remains to be seen, but they are still talking. "Today sends a message that our guys don't have to worry about anything anymore," If he trades for Kobe tomorrow and sends the same guys packing who were rumored, or if ESPN and/or Magic say he's still discussing a deal, he will lose all his credibility with his players. He's about as straight of shooter as there is. Both on and off the court. From the AP: We were never on the verge of a deal,’’ Paxson said. “There was never a time limit to get something done. We never got down to the nuts and bolts because there was never a deal to be done. The reality is we were having talks with the Lakers. But there’s not a deal going to be done.’’ “A lot of the things that were mentioned were not based in any fact whatsoever, that’s the unfortunate part.’’ Paxson said he could not rule out some scenario that resurrected the negotiations. “Who knows?’’ he said. “The reality now is it’s done. It’s only fair to the Lakers and to us and to everybody else that whatever talks we had--there are a lot of people out there searching for information and it becomes ridiculous half the time. I’m not going to separate fact from fiction because there’s so much fiction out there. It’s not fair to players. It’s not to fair to us. I don’t like seeing our guys names in the papers all the time about stuff that’s not based on fact. It’s time to put that part of it to rest and move on.’’ Dan Bernstein------who you crappin?

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) Kobe is more on the level of KG than he is on the level of AI. AI went for tablescraps... we know this. He also was not playing with the team and didn't play for 10 days. Kobe is willing to go out there and play, as was KG. The haul that the T-Wolves got for KG was quite good, including a great replacement in Al Jefferson whom they just signed to a 5 year extension. Now, that being said, the Bulls aren't offering garbage. A deal of Kirk, Tyrus, and Noah (or obviously one of the others that has been rumored sans the Ben Wallace one) are a decent haul for a team in such turmoil. However, the Lakers don't HAVE to trade Kobe, but it sure looks like they want to. Well if they have to trade him it won't be to the Bulls as Paxson as put the speculation to rest.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) The Lakers are a LONG ways away from a quick fix. I can promise you the Lakers are already sick of the Kobe saga around the team, and having their home fans boo the team superstar. As you say, it's going to stay that way until the Lakers get a lot better, which is a LONG way away. Have you seen that team? If Kobe were to hurt, and miss the season, that team would look like the 2002 Bulls. Paxson just said there is no deal to be done. So much for all the desperation. It also sure didn't take the Celtics too long from going from a crap team to one of the better ones. They don't have to win a title in LA, they just have to be entertaining. Kobe is a pretty good start. A couple of other decent players and they would be OK.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:51 PM) I understand the logic, but based on the previous deals for superstars and what they landed for them, I think that the return isnt going to be everything the lakers want. But they need to cut payroll and bring in young talent and possibly additional draft picks. With what they charge for tickets, they need stars. That's the hold-up. If they were so desperate, someof these Deng-less packages would be more than acceptable.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:42 PM) Because Kobe wants out, ownership wants him out, they dont get along, they refuse to put talent around him, and the team is going nowhere fast. I guess other than that they arent desperate. Magic Johnson, a lot closer to the situation than any of us, and even closer than Dan Bernstein, floated the possibility of Kobe remaining with the Lakers and the Lakers improving their team. I think the desperation is very overrated, but we shall see. Besides, if he's so miserable there, the longer they wait, the greater the possibility he expands his landing spots, thus increasing the Lakers chances at a better package.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) They are completely powerless here. He wants out. This is not unlike the AI, Vince Carter and KG situation. We have all the leverage because we dont need to make this trade at all. The Lakers prob wont make the playoffs without rebuilding and gathering more talent. They are not in a position of strength at all. Heres chad ford's take He's still the best player and biggest draw in the game. They don't have to trade him. Its not like the clock is ticking. If they improve their team, Buss and Kobe would kiss and make up in a heartbeat. I'm just one that doesn't see why the Lakers would be desperate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) I dont think Pax has been willing to deal Deng at all. I think that part of it is BS. Pax is too smart to give up his team for a single player. The bulls are in a position of power because we are one of the best teams in the east without making a single move. I think Pax is trying to leverage the desperation of LA by offering them less than people think. I can see it getting done with Gordon, Thomas, Noah, and a pick. Team who deal superstars out of necessity DO NOT get anything good in return. Its historically been more of an unload, just look at some of the past deals. Kobe opts out in 2 years, and if he wants to get paid, he's going to have to agree to a sign and trade. The Lakers are far from powerless here.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) Dan Bernstein is talking about this right now. I'll try to keep up. He still says "Kobe Bryant to become a Bull" by tomorrow afternoon still a 90% possibility. He says Kobe is in charge of this. Deals are talked about that are put in front of Kobe and he has rejected them all... they have already agreed on deals and Kobe has turned them down. The player mentioned the most by "people who know what's going on" is Kirk Hinrich. Kirk is young, desirable, defends, and under contract for a reasonable amount. Kobe knows that Kirk dominates the ball, moreso than any other Bull (amount of time on shotclock with ball in hands, not necessarily shots). The Deng stuff is purely Bryant. The Bulls are more than willing to deal Deng but Bryant refuses to move without Deng staying in Chicago. All names are on the table. Kobe wants to be a Bull, Bulls want Kobe, Kobe wants to be a Bull entirely on his own terms. There are a lot of people who want this deal to get done, but its incredibly complicated involving a 3rd team. A deal proposed yesterday would have involved a player going to the Lakers who was then sent to the Cavaliers (Bibby to the Cavs). Paxson stayed home yesterday to work on this deal, but the game actually being played delayed negotiations. Until John Paxson says this thing is over, it is very active right now. This is from Bernstein, who has very reliable connections with the Bulls. The NBA has always been notorius for its BS rumors. While, I'm sure there is a lot of talk going on, most of it is garbage. Anyone can sound like an expert. I wonder if Bernstein who says 90% chance by tomorrow would be willing to put money on it. What would change between now and then. If Kobe is rejecting everything and adding another team is incredibly complicated how is it that its almost a done deal? A 90% possibility that it gets done? He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. I'm more inclined to listen to Magic Johnson who said Deng was the sticking point. He has better connections than Bernstein.

I'd rather not pay Hunter and save the money for Miguel Cabrera. That guy loves Ozzie. Show him the money and get him in shape. He would be awesome at USCF.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:14 AM) I know a number of people who string stats or do scoreboard work, etc., for a "living", while in school or elsewhere. And as I said, its a foot in the door. You missed the point. If someone can live on that, God bless them. Does anyone know approximately how much ticket reps make? Do they get commissions? I know someone who the stringing about 10 years ago. I think he got $30 a game. Considering thats 81 x30, thats about $2400.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:04 AM) Because I think he can be had at a decent price, and he fills a need for us. He's a plus defending outfielder who can hit for power and put up an 800-ish OPS. If Crede is not healthy or is traded in ST, then Jenkins slips nicely into LF with Fields at 3B. Or if Crede stays but PK goes, Fields to 1B and Jenkins in LF. Or, and I don't know how possible this is, since Jenkins is a very good defensive LF, maybe he can play CF. Point is, depending on how the offseason and ST shake out, having an outfielder who can put up those numbers and play solid D would be huge - and he can probably be had for significantly less than Rowand, Hunter or other names being talked about for the outfield. If he were cheap, I agree he wouldn't be bad to have, but I would rather see the Sox get someone who can rake lefties.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:08 AM) I did specifically say this was more oriented towards those just out of college. Its a way in the door in a very competitive field, which generally means lower pay. But thanks for the jab at those who do these things for a living. I am overwhelmed by the staggering profundity of your artfully crafted retort. Their is no one who does these jobs for a living unless they have some money in the bank or has another job that lets them work the odd hours. They are not full-time jobs and probably pay less than $4000 for the season. $50 a game is probably max. and even that may be high. These things are listed every year, and may not even be available.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) You have seen the rest of his quotes, right? This was from two days ago. Or this from the beginning of camp... Or this from after their first exhibition game He pretty much called him lazy, unfocused, and out of shape. Heck even the "compliment" you posted was pretty weak. From the Daily Herald, After a month of light suspense, the starting power forward job was given to Tyrus Thomas. "The first four or five days of two-a-days in the Berto Center, that first unit (with Thomas) played really, really well together," Scott Skiles said. "I wanted to take a look at something a little bit different late in camp, basically because we had injuries. He certainly didn't do anything in exhibition to hurt himself." Certainly doesn't sound like lazy, unfocused and out of shape to me. You must take Skiles' jabs with a grain of salt. He is an old school coach who believes in constructive criticism. He tends to exagerrate the negative to get a small point across.

The Sun Times is reporting KW will meet with Torii Hunter in the next week and he is the White Sox top priority. His best OBP in his career is .337 and he will cost $15 million a year. The article also mentions Eckstein and even says Eckstein could be added and Uribe's option could be picked up with Uribe playing second or third. It seems ridiculous to me if Eckstein and Uribe are both on the field that Eckstein would be the one playing SS and Uribe 2B.