Dick Allen

At this point, Josh Fields is a better LF than Bonds. Bonds is a DH. The Sox have a pretty good one. While Bonds probably will still put up decent numbers next year, he will be 44 and will most likely miss a lot of time. I have read that KW has known him since high school, but I just don't see it happening. The White Sox would be much better off spending the money it would take to bring him in on something else.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 09:14 PM) Fields could have around 25 HR's in 400 AB's this season. That's a 1 in 16 chance every time he's at the plate that he'll hit a home run, which for a rookie is quite amazing. He has some shortcomings obviously, but I think those can be fixed in the long run. Hopefully he has a better career than another guy who homered frequently as a rookie and was ROY. It seems the Sox are definitely leaning toward bringing Crede back. Fields really needs to improve in LF to be there full time IMO. There is time for him to get adequate, but does anyone think he can play 2b?

AJP has to have the best job security of anyone in sports.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) Yeah, it'd be nice to see Fields keep swatting homers. And Hall is so bad it is amazing. Hall is horrible but at least he has an excuse. Unless the Sox want to eat his contract, he will be back next year and has to be a lock to be improved.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 08:59 PM) What's your favorite Toby Hall hit of the season? I don't think I've seen more than 3 or 4 this year. Didn't he double his first game back? That's my all time favorite. I can't remember another one. His shoulder must really be messed up because you think he would at least hit a little bit.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) I'm pretty sure you agree with me that it's a good thing Gonzalez has struggled so much over the last few months, as it will likely make him a non-option for the bench last year. We both hope to see significant upgrades to our bench. Toby Hall is probably a couple of 2 for 4 games away from making Gonzalez the worst player in the majors.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 05:51 PM) I tend to agree with you, but I also think there could be value out there in the right situation. Neither of us really know what market is for Contreras, and especially with this terrible market, we actually might be under valuing his worth. I guess we will find out this off-season. We do know that nobody was willing to risk eating the contract by putting in a waiver claim less than 2 months ago, and that nobody was too worried a team they would be battling for a playoff spot could possibly pick him up. But you are right we have no idea what his value is now. We also have no idea what kind of payroll KW will have to work with. For all we know, Contreras could come back next season and win 18 games.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 05:45 PM) I didn't know the Dodgers were the only one interested in pitching... Braves Brewers Cards Rays D'Backs Dodgers Mariners Mets Padres Phills Rangers Reds Rockies Looking at the list of teams, ALL of them could use a vet on the staff. If someone wants to give you something for Contreras and eat the contract, I think you have to do it. Its almost a get out of jail free card, and I'm a Contreras fan. I really believe if anyone would have claimed him when they put him through waivers, KW would have said see ya. If this little surge is enough to get someone to bite, its better to trade a guy a year early than a year late, isn't that right Mr. Pratt?

QUOTE(beck72 @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 05:39 PM) I don't get that vibe at all. By all accounts, the sox point to a guy like Danks as the model for young pitchers in what they're looking for. And seem pretty happy about how he's developed this year. I just think the sox are trying to protect his arm, as he's young. If you look at his minor league career, danks has faded as the year goes on. We also get the story that he struggles at the beginning. Now he fades at the end? That's not what you want if you plan on playoff baseball. The White Sox may be happy they have Danks but aren't pleased that he became a 4 or 5 inning 100 pitch guy that had to be shutdown the last month of the season. If Danks struggles next spring and the Sox have someone who does well, Danks very well could see Charlotte. Ozzie is taking a new approach next spring, the games are going to mean more, and he wants to win them. Young guys without a decent track record of major league success will have to perform to make the team. Danks is probably penciled in to a rotation spot, and should improve on his 2007 season. But its not a given that he improves or that he is in the 2008 rotation.

The pitchers have been better than good lately. Uribe and Richar have OPS in the 900s this month. Owens is getting more hits than you can expect. All the bigger bats have had some moments the past few weeks, and yet the team is still 9-9. I think more than a couple of tweaks have to occur for this team to pick up 20+ games on the leaders of the division. There's only so much even I can blame Andy Gonzalez for.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 21, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) That all depends. With as much money that a player like AROD would cost, he'd bring in at least as much in revenue, probably quite a bit more. He will probably get $30 million + a year. I don't know how much more revenue he would bring in. White Sox fans show up for wins, not to see an icon. Tom Seaver's starts didn't boost attendance, Albert Belle's presence didn't either. The Sox would have to win, and sell close to a million more tickets a season. I don't know if capacity would even allow it.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) From the stuff Balta posted in the other thread on this subject: I took it to mean a Mass. athlete and another guy 6'5" 276 lbs. Is it one guy in the ESPN article or 2?

The Royals sure have made some Sox pitchers who have struggled the last couple months feel better about themselves. The White Sox offense has done that a lot this year too.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 12:44 PM) That part there is what makes no sense. You think that ST games, where no one cares if they win or lose and teams have few starters in the lineup all game, are MORE important than actual games in-season during August and September? I fail to see how that is possible. I do think he needs to show up in ST and look good. But that is just one part of his evaluation - this part now is just as important if not more. What was more indicative of David Aardsma's 2007 performance, the way he pitched in Sept. 06 or the way he pitched in March? There isn't enough evidence or enough of a track record for Floyd to fall back on if spring training doesn't go good for him. Danks made the team based on spring training. Esteban Loaisa made the team in 2003 based on spring training. Gil Heredia had a shot that year, and failed. Both had a longer record of having at least some success at the major league level. This is a team that is not rebuilding. If that were the case, the story could be different.

QUOTE(knightni @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) That guy who's always being himself maybe? What about the 6'5" 276 pound athlete/entertainer. Wouldn't that description mean wrestler? Isn't a certain wrester with a reality show about that height and weight?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 20, 2007 -> 11:03 AM) How about K-Rod in 2002? Or Maggs in 1997? Or even a guy like Johnny Estrada in 2003? I'm not about to compare Gavin to any of those, because none of those comparisons hold true; neither do the comparisons to Fogg, Rauch, or even Floyd himself (because there's no way you can even come close to justifying that Floyd is the same pitcher now that he was in 2004). All cases should be looked at separately and no conclusions should be drawn because of what other people did. I don't think anyone has suggested that Floyd is going to be a good pitcher because of a good September, just that it's not meaningless. All we've said is that if he finished the season well, he should be given the first crack at a shot in the rotation next year, and nothing more. If he earns it, it's his. (BTW, I'm not exactly sure how you can suggest that Floyd was ready - or whatever you're suggesting - based on his numbers in 2004. Good ERA, but his control was terrible and he had a freakishly low home run rate; in comparison, he has a freakishly high home run rate this year - 2.4 HR/9. With a home run rate like that, it's a minor miracle that his ERA is under 6; a lot of that probably has to do with his excellent control thus far. Another good sign - regardless of how many 410 foot flyballs he's given up in Comerica - is that his home run rate has gone down as the season has progressed: 5 HR/9 in July, 2.2 HR/9 in August, and all the way down to 0.5 HR/9 in September) His home run rate has decreased in Sept. I believe. If Gavin Floyd was a White Sox prospect in 2004 and he had the Sept. he had, he would be called at worst a #3 next year by many here. I don't know how you cannot compare Gavin Floyd to Gavin Floyd, or come to the conclusion he is a better pitcher now as opposed to then. Its very possible he's worse. My argument is against those who base this month's results as indication of what next year he will be. I have no problem with the White Sox giving him a shot next spring. How he throws then is far more important than how he throws now.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) I've said it before and I'll say it again...it would be a very smart move to pick a day when there is a lefty starter on the mound once per week and decide that JD is going to DH and Terrero (if he's still here) is going to play RF. Why push your luck and wind up getting JT hurt? That's a pretty good idea. Although I'd like an upgrade on the Terrero part.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 11:59 PM) So Gavin's performance right now means nothing towards his future with the White Sox organization? If you actually believe that Gavin is pitching with no pressure on him, I'm going to find myself in complete disagreement with you. It's a job for next year, and it's an opportunity to prove himself to a major league team; if he doesn't prove himself in the least, he's back to trying to prove himself to any of 30 MLB teams again next year. I also don't understand the knocking of Rauch or Fogg either...they have been very productive pitchers in their own rights. Rauch has turned himself into a cog in the Nationals bullpen, and Josh Fogg has put up a career 4.90 ERA over 1000 innings. If Gavin Floyd can give the Sox 4.90 over 1000, I'd be extremely happy. Check Gavin Floyd, September 2004. What did that mean in 2005?

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) And what reasoning has caused this theory? The guy has hit a minimum of 30 every year except for one in the last 12 seasons. That's the point, there is no reasoning. He's supposed to hit at least 40 homers every year or he sucks. Even when he was in a slump, and when he goes in one you can pretty much lob the ball up there and get him out, his AB per HR ratio for this season was almost exactly the same as Willie Mays' career ratio. The guy is a slugger. I hope his back holds up for more games in 2008.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:18 PM) Your ability to copy and paste astounds me. There actually has been numerous rip jobs on Thome even last season. The latest when he was slumping a couple of weeks ago was that he had lost his power.

You need to read Soxtalk more often. Thome has lost his power. He's a nice guy though.

I'm a big fan of Contreras, but if I were KW, if someone would take his entire contract, I would move him. I wouldn't eat any of it, as there is a possibilty he can still be a good pitcher. I'm one of "those" who takes good results at this time of year in the Sox position with a grain of salt, but 4-2 3.56 ERA his last 7 starts probably will quiet the people who think he is done at least a little. People will then question, I know one in particular, why I would have hope with Contreras but be doubtful of Floyd when Gavin is 24 and Contreras is 57 or whatever. I have more confidence Contreras could be decent because he has done it before, and it wasn't 7 years ago like Darin Erstad.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) To think the Sox were considered completely stupid to get rid of Josh Fogg after his awesome September 2001. Charlie Haeger Sept 2006 September 0.82 1 0 1 1 5 0 0 11.0 4 3 1 0 5 15 .111 A WHIP below 1.00, more than a strikeout an inning and a .111 BAA.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 04:54 PM) I think it means you can definitely trade one - just not both. Because given Floyd's performances, I think he has shown there is a good chance he will be a serviceable starter. Add that to a few guys like Gio and others who will be vying for it, and I would feel confident that one of them will be OK. Now, trading both, that might be taking a big risk. See David Aardsma's September last year. He was pretty dominating in games that meant nothing. You can't count on anything based on performance the last 3 or 4 weeks of a lost season. I do agree that they are going to trade one of the starters no matter what, and try to replace him with Bartolo Colon-like veteran. Someone who can be had without too much committment in both years and money. The other problem with giving Floyd the #5 spot is you make Danks, a guy who couldn't even finish out the season, the #4 spot. If Danks had the same season that he's had, and the White Sox had been in contention, he almost assuredly would have seen Charlotte himself. There's a good chance Danks improves on his 2007 season next year, but he basically ran out of gas after 90 innings or so this season. It may not be realistic to think he can give you anything near what you are used to seeing from Garland as far as innings goes. If they don't trade him, they will give Floyd a shot at the rotation, but he's going to have to show them something in spring training.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) Yes, but it sounds like Walker and Cooper are safe. Funny enough, that article makes it seem like Razor might not be back. Its not like he's had a lot to do at 3rd base this year. It would be hysterical if he and the Chief, the bullpen catcher get the axe. Ozzie did say Razor was doing a good job, about what he said about Raines before he was replaced. I hope they keep Razor around, although I've heard he rubs some people the wrong way, but so does just about everybody.