Dick Allen

QUOTE(max power @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) The dreaded lead off walk. Has josh really been that bad in LF? No, I haven't been watching lately. I haven't been watching although I was at the game he dropped one. Its a good time for him to be out there. If he can't hack it, you'll be able to tell when the season is over. No big deal. I still think 2B could be a good place for him. He could be Jeff Kent-like.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) this is a good season for those guys to be up in those situations and - hopefully - learn from their mistakes. But the question is, do they learn from their mistakes or is this what they are? If the Sox are legitimately trying to win next year, which seems like they are, Owens and Richar based on this year's performance not only should not be starting, they should have to fight to make the team.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) I must be the only person, it seems like, who's not a fan of Richar. No, predictably I'm with you on that one. He may be the most liked .190 hitter I've ever seen though.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) not everyone here is totally against the all or nothing approach...in addition you have to accept the guys you have for what they are....not to mention fields minor league track record (much like that of chris young, which has been well talked about on this board) suggests he will draw more walks and his obp and probably average will increase.....either way id wayyyy rather have fields who is an all or nothing guy and actually gets the HR here and there vs. anderson who was also an all or nothing guy and barely ever hit he ball outa the park I'm not saying Anderson is a better hitter than Fields. I'd rather have Fields at the plate myself. I just don't understand how one is just crap and the other destined for stardom. I think there was a pretty good chance Anderson's power and OBP and average would increase over his rookie season as well. Maybe he does have an attitude problem, but it can't be too easy breaking in with the defending champion, trying to repeat.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) inconsequential given the fact that fields would have 13 or so more HR in the same number of ABs.....also josh fields never hit .255 at AAA with a .318 obp I'm just concerned about Fields strikeouts. He's at 100 in 284 AB, and his walk rate is going down. Only 4 in his last 108 AB. His power has been nice, and I wouldn't mind him fanning 175-200 times a season if he also walked 90-110 times and hit 35-40 homers. He seemed to coax walks a lot better earlier. Maybe they found something that he will go after. Hawk mentioned that he will learn to lay off certain pitches and that may be true, but it can't be automatic.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:13 PM) Fields' SLG is over 100 points higher than '06 Anderson and his OPS+ is 30 points higher -- 65 for BA and 95 for JF -- (which is a BIG difference.) I thought people on this board didn't like the all or nothing approach? Isn't Fields probably the most extreme all or nothing hitter on the team?

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) he also hit 9 fewer homers in 80 more ABs He also is a better defender by quite a bit.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:07 PM) 6 IP, 8 H, 3 BB, 2 K's, 3 ER Another mediocre outing from a mediocre pitcher who isn't getting paid like he's mediocre. When Gavin Floyd does that, people get excited. Garland gets a lot of money for what he is. I'd be shocked if he's a White Sox next year. KW had the right idea dumping him last season, he just held out for a little too much, now he will have to settle for something along the lines of what he got for Garcia, maybe less, because Garland makes more, will be coming off a less successful year, and has complained of a knot in his shoulder.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:02 PM) If he got really, really hot batting average-wise he could make it interesting, but not too likely. He is #1 in HR, #2 in RBI, #2 in SLG, #4 in OPS. He's top-5 in the voting. Funny what a difference a year makes. Brian Anderson has on OBP of .290 and he can't hit a lick, defense be damned. Josh Fields has an OBP of .290, he's a future star and a ROY candidate.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 09:45 PM) 19 of 20, that's not a typo? Maybe they need a new scouting report.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 08:59 PM) Thome 19 of 20 against the Rangers now. Yipes. And he's reached in 7 straight at bats. I swear we've been told he's washed up.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 07:17 PM) I wouldn't have made the trade in the first place after seeing that Freddy was maxing out at 87 all of last year. Freddy was getting by on smoke and mirrors. His velocity sure as heck wasn't there at the end of last year. As was I. We needed to get rid of one of them and he was the one who's skills had apparently declined the most. He was on a roll at the end of the season and finished with decent numbers. Of course it was a mirage, it reminded me of when Jim Abbott came back to the Sox after being released and went 5-0 at the end of the season throwing junk up to the plate. Milwaukee gave him some decent money that winter and wound up eating most of it as they released him fairly quickly. Not everyone thought it was a mirage. They were raving about his split.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 07:14 PM) Dick Allen, I assume you are a Dr. with actual knowledge of Freddy's condition, as compared to just saying that a physical (which is completely different than a simple mri) would have shown nothing. And I thought Freddy was injured, judging by the loss of velocity. Just because he invented a split finger, didnt mean that he didnt look hurt. Yes, but Gillick gave Freddy nothing. http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/200...s_warranty.html Seems the Phils fans dont think it was so obvious not to give a physical either. We were told it was the World Baseball Classic and playoffs that had Freddy's velocity at about Charlie Haeger level. We were lied to? I thought he had to be hurt. Freddy had stiffness in the spring when they checked him again, at least as thorough as they would have had him checked in any trade, and it came back clean. If Gillick is a fool what does that say about Ozzie, a guy who knows Freddy a lot better than any of us, and a guy who would know a lot better than any of us if something is not right? He said Freddy would win 20 games in 2007.

The physical wouldn't have shown anything. Freddy also was sore in spring training and had an MRI done, and that came back fine. Go back to the boards here when Freddy was on a roll at the end of the year and tell me how many people thought he was going to fall off a cliff? Ozzie Guillen who knows him better than anyone on this board and apparently a guy who always speaks the truth, said Freddy would win 20 in Philadelphia, so he must be a fool as well. I was one who didn't like Freddy's immediate future, and was criticized for it. I applauded KW for the trade. He couldn't lose. Even if Floyd and Gio are busts he saves money.

If it was KW who shipped Gio and Gavin Floyd out somewhere to acquire Freddy Garcia, and what happened still happened, the KW fans would say Garcia throws 200 innings and wins 15 games every year, how could KW have foreseen what happened? They would have said getting rid of Floyd was no loss (I agree) and shipping a AA pitcher like Gio was a good gamble on a guy with Garcia's track record. Of course since KW is on the other side of the trade he is a genius as well. Read the article I posted about Rosenthal's interview with KW in spring training, just how pompous he was. The bullpen arms, how the White Sox don't care what others think, they have their own evaluation procedure. Now when it blows up one reason being KW forgot that you still have to throw an occassional strike at the major league level, we hear how no one could possibly have seen this coming. JR mentions Jim Leyland praising their bullpen. I thought others opinions didn't matter? I'll just say that I certainly don't think KW is the best GM, I don't think he's the worst. I do appreciate his agressiveness and his effort, but in business, which baseball is, results are what counts. If I had a say, he'd definitely would be put on notice that the lackluster play, and the losing will not be tolerated any more. He has been given the resources to succeed. He succeeded with a lot less. The years of minor league neglect probably have finally caught up to the White Sox. They just don't have many cheap guys they can plug in to fill holes, so the payroll is going to have to go even higher, which means Brooks and his guys are going to have to sell a team that may lose 90+ games and have a price increase on tickets. The minor league problems should have been sorted out a lot sooner than they were. Its amazing they have bottomed out. It makes me sick when the broadcasters try to sell an Andy Gonzalez on the viewers. C'mon, I'm not that dumb.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 10:03 AM) once again, whats with all this "measured by finish place" etc etc. He has a ring. Thats the ultimate goal in professional sports. I would gladly trade in 10 division titles for one World Series ring. Considering the White Sox don't have 10 divisional titles in their history and have 3 WS wins, it wouldn't be a good trade.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 09:51 AM) Ryan is an excellent GM. His downfall is his continued non-aggressiveness at the deadlines. Maybe that means he has a big ego, maybe that means he's stubborn? Who knows, it's all how people choose to spin it. Maybe its just that he doesn't want to overpay for garbage. He can't pick up a lot of money because although Pohlad may be the richest owner in baseball, he's also the cheapest. Their payroll used to be lower than their revenue sharing check. KW wanted to be aggressive at the deadline in 2005 and all he could do was Geoff Blum. That worked out fine, although Blum contributed just about nothing during the regular season.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 08:40 AM) So far, I've provided W-L in baseball as a measure... putting competitive teams on the fields as a measure... and world championships as a measure. In all three areas, KW does better than the majority of GM's. And what responses have there been? "Those numbers are misleading." Why? "You are as wrong as can be." Any reason why? Seriously. This season is a disaster, and KW should take a significant chunk of the responsibility for it. Also, he is NOT the best in the game. But if you think KW is somehow a substandard GM (which the majority here seem to), then you are simply choosing to be in denial of the facts, and of the nature of the game. Can anyone provide any actual information other than this one lousy season, that shows that KW is worse than the majority of GM's? Yes because you get measured by how you do in the division. The schedule is unbalanced. Would St. Louis have a championship in 2006 if its W-L record were measured by baseball as a whole? For the first 3 years of Kenny's reign he had the second highest payroll in the AL Central and finished second all 3 times. In the last 4, all under Ozzie, the White Sox have by far the highest payroll in the AL Central. He has finished 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and now 5th. So if you do it by your method in the AL central he has finished where he should have finished 4 years and below where he should have finished 3 years. That is below average. Of course that is a little misleading as well. He certainly isn't the worst GM in baseball, but to say he's in the top 5, or go overboard like Hawk and call him the best, based on 1 season out of 7 isn't right. Roland Hemond's team won 99 games in 1983, they just didn't win in the playoffs. Close but no win. Roland was gone 2 years later. Its a very similar situation. The 2 year records are pretty close to the same, and the farm system is questionable at best. KW needs to be on a short leash. I can only hope he is truly humbled by this season, because his ego has become as big as some of his mistakes.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 08:28 AM) Seriously -- Williams is without a doubt one of the least successful GMs in major league baseball. In the course of 7 years he's built the worst farm system in baseball and has demonstrated this season that his plan to rectify that is to find scapegoats. Impressive stuff. Anyone that thinks Williams has proven he's even a mediocre GM is delusional. While I'm no fan, winning a championship does qualify him for a lifetime of at least mediocre.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 08:15 AM) Just another point to add to the discussion. As people have noted, the Sox are operated as a profitable business. As such, there are budget constraints, and KW (just like most GM's) has to work within them. So why are people ignoring salaries? Some seem to have forgotten... the Sox were NOT a high payroll team until 2006. So, how about we look at GM's measured in terms of efficiency? How effective they are with the salary cap they are given? Let's look at the Sox under KW. Here are the Sox final standings records in W-L (the single most accurate measure of a team's talent level), along with the team's payroll, and their (ranks) in all of baseball... 2001 Season -----Final Record: 83-79 (14) -----Payroll: $62.3M (16) 2002 Season -----Final Record: 81-81 (14) -----Payroll: $57.0M (18) 2003 Season -----Final Record: 86-76 (11) -----Payroll: $51.0M (22) 2004 Season -----Final Record: 83-79 (15) -----Payroll: $65.2M (15) 2005 Season -----Final Record: 99-63 (2) -----Payroll: $75.1M (13) 2006 Season -----Final Record: 90-72 (6) -----Payroll: $108.6M (5) Anyone notice a pattern or two? Every single year 2001-2005, the Sox placed AT OR ABOVE what their payroll should have dictated. And in 2006, they placed one slot behind it. So until this year, which has certainly been a disaster, KW has put together a consistent history of doing better with the resources he was given than the majority of GM's in baseball. The numbers prove that. So, again, we see that KW has done better than most GM's at putting teams on the field that are as competitive as possible within budgetary constraints. You can use W-L as above, or staying competitive late, or World Series championships. Pick your measure. By ANY of those measures, he has done better than the majority of current or contemporary GM's in the game. Those numbers are misleading. Except for 2005 which nobody can take away from him, he's about right there despite having 38 games a year against DET and KC from 2001-2004, arguably the worst teams in the majors. How does KW's rank in payroll in the AL central compare to the result? I'm sure it will be a little different.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) Take a look at the offensive production minus Konerko, Thome and Dye. That's 6 free innings for the Rangers. Look at the line-up other than those guys. Besides Fields hitting a homer every now and then, there is absolutely nothing there.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:26 PM) I hope they don't feel like overspending on Hunter is going to solve the other 10 holes or so they have. I was reading an old article when Beltran signed with the Mets. Houston offerred him a ton, but a limited no trade which killed the deal. The Mets offered a full no trade. The same will happen with Hunter, so you don't have to worry about him being with the White Sox. It is strange the White Sox will trade for someone with a no trade, Jim Thome, but won't give one to anyone.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) Surely they have no choice. Bringing him back and chancing this much ineptitude for a second year in a row would be too embarrassing. One thing that will improve next season is the back up catcher. This may be a major league record for ineptness. Even if Hall is brought back, there is no way he will be as bad as this season. To think AJ was worried about his playing time being cut into.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) Molina looked like 5 times the hitter Hall's been this year. I'd rather they just release him this offseason. Aren't they paying him next year? They should have just let him have the surgery.

QUOTE(ottawa_sox @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:12 PM) And if I heard correctly yesterday, OMIT was recalled by the Tigers. Hall's 2007 makes Timo look like a first ballot HOFer.