Dick Allen

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) I've said it before and I'll say it again...it would be a very smart move to pick a day when there is a lefty starter on the mound once per week and decide that JD is going to DH and Terrero (if he's still here) is going to play RF. Why push your luck and wind up getting JT hurt? That's a pretty good idea. Although I'd like an upgrade on the Terrero part.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 11:59 PM) So Gavin's performance right now means nothing towards his future with the White Sox organization? If you actually believe that Gavin is pitching with no pressure on him, I'm going to find myself in complete disagreement with you. It's a job for next year, and it's an opportunity to prove himself to a major league team; if he doesn't prove himself in the least, he's back to trying to prove himself to any of 30 MLB teams again next year. I also don't understand the knocking of Rauch or Fogg either...they have been very productive pitchers in their own rights. Rauch has turned himself into a cog in the Nationals bullpen, and Josh Fogg has put up a career 4.90 ERA over 1000 innings. If Gavin Floyd can give the Sox 4.90 over 1000, I'd be extremely happy. Check Gavin Floyd, September 2004. What did that mean in 2005?

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) And what reasoning has caused this theory? The guy has hit a minimum of 30 every year except for one in the last 12 seasons. That's the point, there is no reasoning. He's supposed to hit at least 40 homers every year or he sucks. Even when he was in a slump, and when he goes in one you can pretty much lob the ball up there and get him out, his AB per HR ratio for this season was almost exactly the same as Willie Mays' career ratio. The guy is a slugger. I hope his back holds up for more games in 2008.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 10:18 PM) Your ability to copy and paste astounds me. There actually has been numerous rip jobs on Thome even last season. The latest when he was slumping a couple of weeks ago was that he had lost his power.

You need to read Soxtalk more often. Thome has lost his power. He's a nice guy though.

I'm a big fan of Contreras, but if I were KW, if someone would take his entire contract, I would move him. I wouldn't eat any of it, as there is a possibilty he can still be a good pitcher. I'm one of "those" who takes good results at this time of year in the Sox position with a grain of salt, but 4-2 3.56 ERA his last 7 starts probably will quiet the people who think he is done at least a little. People will then question, I know one in particular, why I would have hope with Contreras but be doubtful of Floyd when Gavin is 24 and Contreras is 57 or whatever. I have more confidence Contreras could be decent because he has done it before, and it wasn't 7 years ago like Darin Erstad.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) To think the Sox were considered completely stupid to get rid of Josh Fogg after his awesome September 2001. Charlie Haeger Sept 2006 September 0.82 1 0 1 1 5 0 0 11.0 4 3 1 0 5 15 .111 A WHIP below 1.00, more than a strikeout an inning and a .111 BAA.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 04:54 PM) I think it means you can definitely trade one - just not both. Because given Floyd's performances, I think he has shown there is a good chance he will be a serviceable starter. Add that to a few guys like Gio and others who will be vying for it, and I would feel confident that one of them will be OK. Now, trading both, that might be taking a big risk. See David Aardsma's September last year. He was pretty dominating in games that meant nothing. You can't count on anything based on performance the last 3 or 4 weeks of a lost season. I do agree that they are going to trade one of the starters no matter what, and try to replace him with Bartolo Colon-like veteran. Someone who can be had without too much committment in both years and money. The other problem with giving Floyd the #5 spot is you make Danks, a guy who couldn't even finish out the season, the #4 spot. If Danks had the same season that he's had, and the White Sox had been in contention, he almost assuredly would have seen Charlotte himself. There's a good chance Danks improves on his 2007 season next year, but he basically ran out of gas after 90 innings or so this season. It may not be realistic to think he can give you anything near what you are used to seeing from Garland as far as innings goes. If they don't trade him, they will give Floyd a shot at the rotation, but he's going to have to show them something in spring training.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 19, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) Yes, but it sounds like Walker and Cooper are safe. Funny enough, that article makes it seem like Razor might not be back. Its not like he's had a lot to do at 3rd base this year. It would be hysterical if he and the Chief, the bullpen catcher get the axe. Ozzie did say Razor was doing a good job, about what he said about Raines before he was replaced. I hope they keep Razor around, although I've heard he rubs some people the wrong way, but so does just about everybody.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) Actually in other words, getting a better selection of talent is better than a winning 70 games. Here is an easier way of putting it for everyone. There are 25 girls in the room, would you like to be the first guy in the room to get your pick. Or would you rather be the 13th and see whats left over. The point was that the White Sox second choice in the 1989 draft was actually better than their first. Thomas was picked #7. Robin Ventura was picked #10 the year before. There were 3 players picked before him that never played in the major leagues including Ty Griffin a guy the Cubs, a team looking for a 3rd baseman for decades picked right before the Sox picked Ventura. In 1987 if the Sox had their first pick, they would have chose Mike Harkey,but fortunately he was unavailable thanks again to the Cubs and Jack McDowell wound up on the right side of town.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) You would of been a lot of fun in the late 80s when we stacked up on talent. Oh that 77th win is so much better than that silly football player. Frank Thomas wont help us this year. Actually a couple of more losses that year would have meant Jeff Jackson instead of Frank Thomas. That's who the Sox really wanted, but Philadelphia chose him.

3 k's 3 runs. He truly is a tease.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 07:00 PM) Not necessarily. A lot of people thought Buerhle and Dye were gone too. I guess it all depends on what/who KW thinks the winning pieces are for another championship run. I don't see the need to tear the team apart and rebuild as many suggest. KW believes Gio, Danks and Floyd will be in his rotation in the next couple of seasons. He has Contreras signed for 2 more years, Vazquez signed for 3 more years. Buerhle for 4 more plus some others in the minors. I think if Buerhle wasn't re-signed that there was a chance Garland would get a big offer. I could be all wrong, but unless someone gets hurt between now and spring training, I think Garland is out of here, and I don't believe he will bring back all that much in return besides salary relief. Maybe a middle reliever or 2 or a couple of B prospects, but sometimes those guys turn out better than top prospects.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) Mark Prior It would probably be one of the top 5 all time threads on Soxtalk, if they signed him.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) The problem is...you almost have to make your decision on Floyd before the spring...because making the decision on Floyd if it's a yes requires an open rotation spot. If you're considering Garland for Furcal...you're doing so with the expectation that Floyd has shown you enough to decide that he'll be at worst an adequate 5th starter next season. You can't just hold onto Garland until the end of ST...not when you have to decide whether or not to pick up the option on Uribe and figure out who's your SS if you don't. I think they will trade Garland no matter what. Its too bad there isn't a guy like Paul Byrd available to sign as a free agent. If he's available cheap and for a year or so, I wouldn't rule out KW looking at Bartolo Colon. He didn't look all that great Friday, but he hadn't pitched in a while and he was between 91-94 during the game. If I knew he could make it through the season, which obviously can't be determined and you would probably have to be very skeptical, I would prefer Colon at $4-5 million than Garland at $12 million for 1 year. That's just me though.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) A poor outing tonight would certainly make it harder to justify opening up a rotation spot for Floyd next year. I would really, really like to see him finish the year without another disastrous outing. Just put up quality starts, that's what I'm sort of hoping for. If he can't hold his own against the Royals in Sept., then even I'd have to question whether we could expect anything better from him next season. These Sept. performances are all we're going to have to base probably our biggest offseason decision on; do we trade Mr. Garland or not? If Gavin Floyd can't cut it in the last couple trial outings, even if they are just september tryouts, then you can't trade Garland unless you have someone else lined up to fill that role. You're making my point. I don't think an outing in a battle for 4th place on September 18th should have any bearing on Gavin Floyd's position with the 2008 White Sox whether he gives up 10 runs in the first, or pitches a perfect game. My point I made over a month ago was Floyd can't possibly guarantee himself a spot in the White Sox rotation in 2008 before 2007 was over, no matter how he pitched. If KW doesn't let him go this winter, he is going to have to make the team in spring training. I think he should be a reliever, and was glad when they threw him in the bullpen. I think the guy is a head case and Ozzie could pick his spots, besides its not like he would have had to have been all that great to unseat a guy like Bukvich. I understand getting Danks a break, I still think Floyd in the rotation when wins matter is a big mistake.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) Guys win and lose jobs all the time in Spring Training. Practice games. They don't count for anything, yet roles are defined, and opinions are formed. Your saying these games in September mean LESS than games in March? I believe they do. If Floyd went 5-0 with a 1.23 ERA this September, but had a 15.00 ERA in spring training next year, chances are he would have no chance to start out in the rotation. If he were 0-4 with an ERA of 11.00 this September, but had a 2.50 ERA in the spring, he would have a much better shot at a spot in the rotation.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) You kill me, man. What the heck does that even have to do with Freddy Garcia? Was he auditioning for a job with the 2007 White Sox? No. He had one or was going to be traded, but he sure wasn't auditioning. Nor is he 25, or just breaking in to the majors, or in any other way comparable to Floyd. And we all know it doesn't matter to you if Floyd goes out and pitches yet another good game, because in your view he sucks and will never get better. Got it. Thankfully, KW and most baseball folks realize that players are not all static, which is the main reason he is getting these starts (the other being a possiblity he is traded, but I doubt that). Why else, do you suppose, they are sending him out there? I don't even think Floyd is that good - but I can see the obvious fact that he is getting better. I now think he may even be a serviceable 5th starter, if he keeps this up in his last couple starts. My eyes are not completely clouded by my previous assessments. Although his W-L record was pretty good, Garcia was awful in 2006 until the last month or so. I would be willing to bet if you went back and searched, that several people, maybe even yourself thought that Freddy had learned to pitch with his decreased velocity and should be good for 15+ wins in 2007. I am not of the opinion 1 or 2 starts in meaningless games makes up for the garbage that came out of his hand when the games had at least a little meaning. What would doing good or bad tonight mean for 2008 for Floyd?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:13 PM) So we can expect Gavin to go under the knife next April? I love pointless (stupid? dumb?) comparisons. September stats is the comparison. You may think its dumb or stupid, but I don't. Besides almost everyone said Freddy was pitching injured all of last season, even me, as dumb or stupid as I am.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) I'm sure you are trying to make a point here, but I can't tell what it is. Are you saying Floyd is also suffering from some sort of injury? Or that we are going to trade Floyd this offseason? Or that Floyd is also related to Ozzie in some way? What I am saying is these games mean squat. To win a job with the White Sox based on what you do in September would be a mistake. I am thankful KW knows it. Floyd pitched well against a depleted Detroit line-up and pitched well against a Cleveland team that has a comfortable lead in the division that got to bed at 6AM on a long rainy night in Chicago. They probably weren't too fired up about playing the last place White Sox.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 01:53 PM) Nevermind that his last two starts, both solid, were against the two playoff contending teams in this division. Freddy Garcia looked pretty good last September.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) NorthSide, Yes I agree with your statements and I should have been clearer on my point. Southsider commented that the Sox will "have to" do this and that, and further we should get used to seeing league minimum players like Richar, Owens, etc. in the lineup, ostensibly due to payroll constraints. My point, and I should have made it directly, is no one knows what their budget will come in at, but I will address a few budget variables in a moment. I agree with Southsider that several players will be moved, but not necessarily for salary reasons. They have said and are saying now they plan to be competitive and Williams has also said that payroll will not be an issue. I interpret that to mean they won't "have to" dump players who are making money just for the sake of clearing payroll. They will move any player ... any player ... if it makes baseball sense to do so (unless there is a no trade barrier in the contract). Yes paid attendance will come in somewhat lower but we cannot forget other streams of revenue have opened up. What about those scout seats and what about the Jim Beam Club which used to be the pressbox? Those are substantial shots in the arm to revenue. That is just one example. As Southsider correctly states, none of us know what the payroll will be, or frankly what they may or may not be forced into doing personnel-wise. I do see them continuing to build around pitching and I expect a few unexpected trades to revamp the pitching. I also see them dipping into the Japanese market. Further, they are heavily evaluating their own young players and giving them a chance. Results have been mixed but none of us can say what the front office is thinking on these guys. Guillen tipped his hand by saying last week they cannot carry all these young guys or they will be in last place. I also don't think they were maxed out payroll-wise this season. KW chose not to use his entire budget probably for some flexibility later on, and the fact that the team wasn't in contention made picking up a big contract a mute point. At least they know at this point that if they put a team that can win on the field, people will show up. They haven't always had that .

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 17, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) One thing key for Fields in the future: work on pulling fastballs, just ripping them. He's hit a ton of opposite field shots (I didn't see his homer today or yesterday, so I don't know where they are) but those homers will go down as people realize, "Hey, he can hardly get around on an inside fastball. That's where you pitch him" and then his game completely dies. As for Richar, I'm not sure about him. I wish him luck and will wait and see. Same with Fields, really, but I've got significant concerns about him + fastballs/inside. I posted this the other day,I was sitting right behind the White Sox on deck circle Friday and Fields has a very short and quick stroke when he's there, it just gets real long when he steps up to the plate. I don't know if it can be corrected, but if he could take the short stroke with him to the plate, he'd do a lot more damage, and walk back to the dugout a lot less.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2007 -> 09:50 PM) Are you seriously telling me you're somehow unhappy with the job Richar is doing at adapting to the league, and using as your argument a comparison between a guy with 3071 major league at bats and a guy with 144 major league at bats? The problem with Richar's success is it can't be relied upon. He's had some decent games recently after being horrible for a while. He's playing in meaningless games. There's no way around it. Even KW didn't want to have to evaluate him in September. Its an industry wide cardinal rule, don't give guys jobs based on September numbers. Its not to say that he won't be good some day, maybe even next year, but don't get too excited if he starts lighting it up right now. If he's turning a corner, it may be the same one KW saw Aardsma and Masset turn last season.

I've looked at the top 10 draft picks the past 5 years. Even in the top 10, its a crapshoot. There aren't that many players contributing much to winning yet. There are a few real good ones. I think its time to bust out the Lose for Pedro t-shirts.