Dick Allen

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) I just wonder if Hall will finish up with more walks than RBI's. Right now he's sitting on 1 for each category. He has twice as many passed balls as walks and RBI combined. Molina had a walk and an RBI, so the back up catchers have 2 BB and 2 RBI on the season.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:12 PM) Nope, he's been absolutely worthless in every possible way. I hope for his sake its because of his injury. Molina was one of the worst hitters I've ever seen, but at least he could catch a little. Back up White Sox catchers have 2 RBI this year. That is incredible.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) So, I think I just heard the most depressing comment of the year: the Sox have Gonzalez, Hall, and Erstad to try and tie the game in the 9th. That's so bad, they will probably score. Has any position player ever had a worse year than Toby Hall, offensively and defensively? He has to be the worst position player in the majors at this time.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 09:56 PM) The White Sox had to rebuild practically the entire starting staff after all the arms fell off after 2000. KW has had the luxury and resources to go for it? What about all the White Sox fans complaining ad nauseum about payroll restrictions all those years? It's not as if the resources were unlimited, not by a long shot. Buerhle and Garland have been constants. That's 40% of your rotation 7 years later is pretty good. The White Sox have spent about $176 million more on players than Cleveland the past 5 seasons. I don't know if Shapiro is all that great, but the deal for Colon was good. Picking up Hafner for a bad pitcher was good. Getting Co Co Crisp for an old Chuck Finley was good. He didn't have the built in offense that KW to start, and KW's teams were mediocre in a horrible division. Cleveland was rebuilding, Detroit was losing 100 + games, KC was KC.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 08:07 PM) Right, it's KW's responsibility for us winning but Beane and Shapiro for them losing. Gillick has a longer track record of success than KW and is a better GM. I'm not going to spend time arguing over whether or not Minaya is better than KW. Most people would tell you so. Ask around somewhere else and see what you get. That's a great point. 90 victory seasons are something for KW to hang his hat on, its the players fault if they don't do more. If Beane or Ryan put together a playoff team and they lose in the first or second round, they don't know how to build championship teams, its not the players fault they don't win, its the flawed roster. KW has had 1 team out of 7 that's played up to or beyond expectations. That's 14.3%. You can blame the players, but they have been different every year. You can blame the manager. He's had a couple of those. Or maybe just maybe its the guy responsible for putting together the roster. The problem with 2007 is KW is hard headed and didn't want to admit he was wrong about 2006. He wanted to bring back the same guys because he said they won 90 games and couldn't have played worse. Wrong again. Its that same stubborness why we have to watch Gavin Floyd surrender gopher ball after gopher ball. It wasn't White Sox scouts who suggested KW get Floyd. It was KW himself. Ozzie doesn't want him on the roster. He has said a few times he has to see what Kenny wants to do. Ozzie has less say in Gavin Floyd than any other player he's ever managed. One of KW's apologists on this board actually ripped into your boy JS in one thread about a month ago saying winning the division gets old.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) id still rather have rowand hit the market and us not sign him.....higher supply means lower prices I don't think there will be too many bargains. The Yankees and Texas are both in the market for CFers and both have no problem spending money. I wonder if the Sox would take Johnny Damon off the Yankees hands if the Yankees ate some of the contract. I don't even know if he can play CF anymore or LF for that matter.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) At least they were financially. They had 455 consecutive sellouts from '95-'01, right when Shapiro took over. Actually the Indians were sold then, and I'm pretty sure that's why Hart bailed. The new owner paid a premium. He bought high. In fact, he probably couldn't have bought higher. I think he then started having other financial issues.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) That's great and all, but has little to do with KW. The Bulls have won 6 championships over the past 15 NBA seasons (40%,) but that doesn't make Paxson the best GM in the NBA. Just like wins and loses in the playoffs has little to do with KW. It wasn't because of KW the ball went through Tony G's legs. KW had nothing to do with Konerko hitting a grand slam. He didn't turn on a giant fan to push Pods homer into the seats. Once you get into the playoffs, it pretty much a crapshoot. Is Jockety a genius for winning with a team that won 83 regular season games? KW won one, I'll tip my hat, wire to wire, it doesn't happen very often, but it doesn't give him a lifetime pass. He'll be here next year, and probably a long time after that. It will be interesting to see how he intends to fix this. I think its more than tweaks which are needed. I hope he agrees.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) Oh, so that's why Shapiro undeservingly gets more credit. I'd say the Indians were in a hell of a lot better shape before Shapiro than the White Sox before KW. You may want to look at Cleveland's roster when he took over. Brady Anderson was with the Tribe. They had Vizquel and Thome, but not all that much else. The Sox had Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Crede, Garland, Buerhle, Valentin, Durham, Konerko, they had a decent team. Cleveland was dismantling, the White Sox building. Its probably time for the White Sox to dismantle, but they probably can't afford the attendance hit like Cleveland took. Wasn't it around the time Hart got out, when the Indians had been sold for a premium and the new owner was losing a boatload on another business?

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 05:05 PM) So you would rather be the Oakland A's or Minnesota Twins of the past 7 years instead of the Sox? Interesting. ..and the easiest answer isn't KW because his job is toughest spot to fill. How hard would it be to find another pitching or hitting coach over a GM? The Twins won in 1987 and 1991 and make the playoffs occassionally. Oakland is usually right there, won 3 in a row in the 70's and won 1 in the 80's and make the playoffs pretty often.I would take Minnesota and Oakland's last 30 years over the White Sox last 30 years easily.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) How many of the present MLB gms have a World Series ring? So that means Kenny should be GM as long as he wants? Jerry Krause had 6. How many GM's have ever had that? How much credit did he get?

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) For comparison, how about Shapiro in Cleveland. Everyone raves about their talent, and I like their team. He's been there for 6 years as GM and in their organization since 1992. From 2001 to 2006 they won one division (2001) and were over .500 one other year (2005). They had a great 2005 as we all know and then completely tanked last year. They're a good team this year and lead the division but I wouldn't classify them as dominant by any means. Ownership stuck with both Shapiro and their manager after last year's debacle and now they lead the division. The teams were at different points when each took over. Shapiro had to rebuild and trade veterans for young players. KW has had the luxury and resources to go for it. The White Sox have had about $120 million more to play with the last 4 seasons. Some of it because KW won, but still the comparision is really not fair.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) Well-said I don't know that the Sox have been so successful under KW. He did win , I'll give him that, but for the majority of the time he's been the GM the division has been weak. KC and Det. were absolutely atrocious, Cleveland rebuilt. Minnesota has turned over their roster. In the six years he didn't win a championship or division or wild card, KW's teams are a combined 9 games over .500. Considering the unbalanced schedule, its not so impressive, at least to the degree where you can say without a doubt that KW is the smartest GM around.

I must say it is amazing Cooper gets no blame. I understand most of the pitchers suck, but so does most of the line-up.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 10:18 AM) "BOOR-jwaaah" Sort of like a right winger for the Montreal Canadiens. I hope he's more successful than BOOR-chard. BTW, the headline on whitesox.com is Floyd takes the reigns as White Sox go south. I wonder if they thought about that one before they put it up.

Gene Lamont got fired and he has a better winning pct. managing the White Sox than Ozzie Guillen. Jerry Manuel was fired after having a team win 86 games. I love how some people claim 2006 was a success because the team won 90 games, yet bash Billy Beane because the A's have won that many several times but have done nothing in the playoffs. Personally, I don't think Ozzie or Kenny ever will be fired, but if they bring back basically the same team with small tweaks, or bring back a team in 2008 that is the same or worse, they both should be gone. Roland Hemond lost his job after a "decent" 1985. With 7 or 8 guys on the roster making $10 million or more, battling it out with KC for the cellar isn't going to do White Sox partner's pockets any good.

http://www.examiner.com/a-903190~Not_looki...at_for__08.html

Supposedly Rowand is close to signing an extension. Please be true.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 06:50 PM) Uh, Konerko's slam is greater than 2 and 3, for sure. Iguchi's homer against the Red Sox after the ball went through Graffinino's legs was also huge. There is no telling what kind of confidence lift that gave the team. Who knows what happens if Boston wins that game.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 03:06 PM) Oh let him enjoy the game for once...it's not like he's had anything to celebrate lately. Its all for show. He's not enjoying this game. He'd rather be golfing or sleeping.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) That time too, if you'll recall, Widger hit a fourth homer in that inning. Grand slam I think. Against Toronto 4 or 5 years ago, they hit 3 in a row and 4 out of 5.

Supposedly Hawk is having a muliple orgasm right now. Someone needs to show him the standings. He's not going to be able to sell this team to anyone right now, even if they win 15 in a row.

Fields must have homered, I can see the fireworks from my office.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) I remember seeing A LOT of people saying we should spend everything to take one chance at a World Series, and that it didn't matter what happened after the fact. They just wanted the one title. Those people seem to have all disappeared, except for one honest one here. to you for being honest. The thing is the White Sox didn't sell the farm to win the WS. They did it pretty economically, and the only "prospect" they really surrendered and I am using that term as losely as it can, was Ryan Meaux. This team should not have suffered a drop off this badly. In fact the only franchise to be below .500 the second season after winning it all is Florida. There was another team or 2 that were below .500 the season after but bounced back a bit.

Maybe Gavin Floyd can go there again and get Kenny all excited.