Dick Allen

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) Singleton isn't bored, he has to listen to Farmer all day. Personally, I would have taken my life long ago if I had to do that. Or Farmer's. I don't think a jury of his peers would convict Singleton if he took out Farmio

At least KW got Mike Myers. He's impressive.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:23 PM) So then why did Buehrle and Dye re-sign, for arguably below market value. Both have said a large reason they re-up'd was based on what Williams told them about next year's plan. I could see Williams and Ozzie blowing smoke up the fans ass, but not Mark and JD. Telling him what he wants to do, and actually getting it done are 2 different things. I would imagine after last year, if these guys were free agents to be then, he would have told them he was going after a real CF. He would have told them about the big plan to revamp the bullpen. KW needs to be held accountable and should be on a short leash at the very least.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:21 PM) "Fathom, Kenny Willams here. What you have to understand is that the market will correct itself at some point. In the meantime, we've locked up some fine power arms who looked great in Mexico this winter." Nobody else in baseball saw what KW saw in all the stiffs he acquired for the bullpen. He was bragging about it. Now he's hiding behind the "nobody could see us being this bad". On one hand he likes to mention how much smarter he is, but when it doesn't work out, all of a sudden those other opinions which used to mean nothing, are like gospel.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:19 PM) Personally, I think all this talk about being spenders this offseason is bulls***. They'll act like they went after people, and then b**** about the contracts being too much and bad for business. I can't wait to see who's fired next, as we know it will be another scapegoat. I'll be shocked if they actually up the payroll. I agree it will be someone like Duane Shaeffer who will get canned, while the decision makers who screwed up again will live off 2005 for the rest of their careers.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) They're so far away from competing, it's scary. Assuming they trade Garland this offseason, that leaves you with two starters who you can even count on to have an ERA south of 5.50 next year. You have a horrible bullpen besides Bobby Jenks. Then, you have just no depth on offense. You need a new LF/CF/SS, and have to get better reserves. So basically.....unless they're willing to go on a spending spree (which won't happen with all the big contracts we have tied up right now), this team is looking at a ton of holes again next year. When Hawk who obviously has some inside, is trying to sell the public on stiffs like Gonzalez and Owens, you can only cringe.

This organization should be embarrassed they cannot compete at all. Its about time the "shock" of how horrible they are wears off and heads need to roll, from every level. KW should look at the bullpen he dislocated his shoulder patting himself on the back for and resign right now.

They should give the people at the park sticking this one out a shot at some souveniers. Bring in Floyd.

I'm pretty sure AJ calls the games. He's looking in the dugout not for pitches but for pitchouts, pickoffs and they also tell the young pitchers when to throw over to first base.

Thome is a DH only right now. It limits his market. You won't be getting back nearly what he can give you if you trade him. I don't know why giving up the guy who gets on base more often than anyone else on your roster and homers more often per at bat than anyone on your roster for some young unproven guys, when you are still trying to win is such a great idea anyway.

Supposedly AJ is the most pissed off at the Sox lack of success. I'm not going to mention game calling because we really don't know who is calling pitches and the bottom line is the pitcher is the one who calls the game. The catcher suggests pitches. AJ has probably as good of record catching games as anyone. Lets not deflect the blame onto everyone but the one it should be blamed on, the pitcher.

They said Edgar Martinez' bat speed was declining for about 10 years. They also said Rowand's bat speed was pathetic in spring training. When Thome goes into a slump you can throw BP fastballs by him. Its nothing new. He's starting to see the ball a little better now. He's nowhere near done yet.

This was obvious from the get go. Just like the "rainout" when the Yankees were in town and there was hardly drizzle this one gets called right about the time beer sales would have stopped if the game had started on time. At least it rained this time. Waiting for 2 hours was ridiculous.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 23, 2007 -> 09:06 AM) Two games so far with Myers and no success. However, maybe he just needs time to get back in shape? I think he's showing why the Yankees released him and no contending teams desperate for relievers picked him up.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) But this is basically what the Sox are doing, which is why I laugh when people get so upset about the move. You say the innings pitchers throw now mean NOTHING for 2008, so then why are you so concerned about the innings Myers is said to be taking away from Logan,Thornton and others? They don't mean anything, right? This signing is just a "Pre-Spring Training Invite". If Myers has nothing left, they cut him loose, don't bring him back in 2008. He shows he has something left in the tank, you pick up the option, and see what he brings for 2008. Then you are on the hook for his guarantee no matter what he shows you in the spring. Make him make the team next year. Myers has experience, the Sox have plenty of guys who could use a little. The big difference is you wouldn't be basing whether or not a guy would be a member of the 2008 White Sox based on their performance like you would be for Myers.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) Well if OBP is all you want from him then thats good. But his eye isnt something that delines, his power stroke does. Right now he's on pace to hit 30 or 31 homers if he gets to 500 ABs which is actually pretty good. Putting that into perspective, Willie Mays hit 660 homers in 10880 at bats. About the same rate the declining Jim Thome is hitting them this season. He has the best home run per at bat ratio on the team. Better than Konerko, better than Dye, better than even Josh Fields. This is right after he's been sort of cold, chances are it will go up.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 06:40 PM) When was the last time he slugged under .500? How bout under .530? Shoot, whens the last time he hit under 30 hr's? The guy is declining, and declining fast. Up until 3 weeks ago, he was second in the AL in OBP. I'll take that decline. He's as streaky as they come. He may hit 8 homers the next 2 weeks. The thing is when he's hitting, he's also walking a lot and not striking out much. When he's not going well, everything pretty much goes with him. He'll be fine. The answer to both of your questions is 2005.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 07:13 PM) I've thought that. Wouldn't it be kind of funny? You have to figure he will eventually go under the knife. I think if he had a multi year contract with the Phillies, they would have had him get it done, but they didn't want their high profile acquisition done in June, and therefore done with the Phillies. especially with only 1 victory to his credit. Unless someone wants to give Freddy a decent sized check, I really think he eventually, whether its next season or a year after surgery will come back to the Sox on a cheap 1 year contract.

Does anyone think KW may take a flier on Freddy Garcia this winter? He had a rehab assignment Saturday. He probably would have been better off having surgery, but I'm sure will be available cheap, and probably wants to get back to hanging around Ozzie.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 06:58 PM) AJ + Hall wouldn't even be that hot if he hadn't been injured. Give Toby a break. He's driven in a run this season. It must really suck for Toby that when you open his page on whitesox.com, the action photo isn't even him, its not even anyone any good. Its Nick Masset.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 06:59 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1493466:date=Aug 21, 2007 -> 04:56 PM:name=elrockinMT)-->QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) <!--quotec-->Kalapse, your expert analysis of our players amazes me. Buerhle shouldn't have been traded either and wasn't. I spoke out against that trade idea too. Buerhle, Garland and Vazquez are better than "slightly above average." I am not too certain about Contreras anymore and if we get offered a good return in a trade that maybe Jose should go, but when he is on he is one of the best and has shown that. You don't mess around with trading away good pitching just because they have a rough stretch. There's nothing in the numbers that tells me Garland is anything more than a slightly above league average starter, not a damn thing. If you have some statistics that I have not seen that proves otherwise I'd love to see it. A career 4.48 ERA, 103 ERA+ (100 being average), 1.37 WHIP and a ~2.2:1 K:BB suggests he's pretty damn average. I'm not saying he's a bad pitcher or anything, I think a league average starter is an incredibly valuable thing. You seem to have a habit of overrating White Sox personnel. ERA ERA+ WHIP K BB HR 4.58 100 1.407 112 83 23 2002 4.51 99 1.367 108 74 28 2003 4.89 100 1.378 113 76 34 2004 3.50 127 1.172 115 47 26 2005 4.51 103 1.363 112 41 26 2006 4.84 94 1.407 90* 61* 23* 2007 --------------------------- 4.45 102 1.344 108 64 27 6 Year Totals *Projected totals What am I missing here? His 2007 is eerily similar to 2002 and 2006 is almost the same to 2003. The last 2 years under Jerry Manuel, the guy that supposedly handled Garland all wrong and the last 2 years under Ozzie Guillen, the guy that made Garland a decent pitcher, are virtually identical. Amazing.

From earlier this season one of Ken Rosenthal's columns a Q & A with KW. Kenny sounding a little pompous Q: Now that you've seen the young pitchers you've acquired, how much better do you feel about the moves that you made? A: It's everybody else that feels better. I had already seen these kids. That's why we got 'em. I already had a sense of optimism based on our evaluations. But the coaching staff hadn't seen them. The manager hadn't. Now they understand to a greater degree. They're excited. And the players are, too. I've had a few of them come up to me. Mark Buerhle said publicly the other day, the public perception is that we're looking for a fifth starter. All the players are saying, 'How are they going to choose one from this group?' They're impressive. And we had to do it. Q: When did you decide it was necessary? A: Three years ago. Q: You knew it three years ago? You knew it would be this off-season? A: Sure. Q: Just the way the contracts laid out? A: The way the contracts laid out, the way trends go on successful pitchers, the accumulations of workload. And success, which correlates into higher compensation. If we would have continued on, we would have damn near had a $70 million rotation. Q: So you knew in '04 that this was an off-season in which you would have to do some things. A: One of the reasons Javy was brought in last year was with that mindset that you're going to have some variables. If you don't prepare for either the loss of talent in free agency, injuries, poor performance, whatever — if you don't insulate yourself — your competitive level could drop off a cliff. Will Mark Buerhle still be with the White Sox come 2008? (Rob Leiter/MLB / Getty Images) And once it does, it's been my observation — and I hope I never have to witness it first-hand — it takes you a long time to climb back. Why? Because your first line of defense more times than not has slipped. And that first line of defense is pitching. Q: The criticism of what you have done is that you've taken a step back in '07. A: The disappointing thing is that I would think people by now would know me better than that. If and when I feel like that — that we're rebuilding and I don't think we can compete for a championship — I'll be the first one to tell you. But if you just look at things on the surface, what have we done? We've fortified the bullpen. People don't know what we know about Andy Sisco, don't know the name Nick Masset, don't know Aardsma turned the corner at the end of last year for the Cubs, don't know Charlie Haeger's versatility. We eliminated one starter. The common thought is that we eliminated two starters. That's not true. Brandon wasn't in last year's rotation. Freddy was the starter we eliminated. Now we have three or four candidates to go into that spot, with probably Floyd and Danks leading the way. Everyone wants to focus on this whole makeover. What makeover? One of our off-season needs was a backup catcher. We feel we now have one of the best tandems (A.J. Pierzynski and Toby Hall) in the game. We needed to insulate ourselves against Brian (Anderson) in center field to make sure he was going to continue to progress. So, in comes (Darin) Erstad. (Scott) Podsednik gets hurt, so now Erstad becomes that much more valuable to us. Everybody else is the same. Q: How good are the three starting pitching prospects you acquired — Floyd, Gonzalez and Danks? A: We look at things a little differently sometimes than other clubs. Here's what we think: We think they can pitch on a championship team. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here. Who pans out to be a No. 1, 2 or 3, I don't know. They're all going to be somewhere in there. But fortunately, with Jon Garland, Mark Buerhle, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez, we don't need them to be anything but a No. 5 right now and next year as well. They've got time to grow into whoever they're going to turn out to be. But they're going to be special. Q: A lot of people think your moves were driven by owner Jerry Reinsdorf, that he wanted to cut payroll... A: He absolutely did not tell me to lower payroll. The payroll went up. The payroll since '05 has gone up about $28 million. The revenues haven't gone up that much, I guarantee you that. It's kind of an unfair picture that's being painted. We're over $100 million. And while it's great to be able to pay some of the stars of the game, we did win (the 2005 World Series) on a $75 million payroll. Money is not the answer to one's issues. It's not. I told Jerry, we're going to be very unpopular until right around March 15. And he said, 'Why March 15?' I said, 'Because that's when people are going to get it. They're going to see for themselves. They don't know the names. They just see, a 17-game winner (Garcia) and young stud prospect (McCarthy) in and out the door.' I said, 'Right around March 15, they'll start to figure it out.' And it actually happened, right around March 4. Whatever people didn't know that he knew about Sisco, Masset and Aarsmda, I'm kind of glad I don't know.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 06:15 PM) And let the guy rust over until ST of 08? He still needs to be out there if you expect him to contribute, even next year. That wouldn't matter. What should happen is instead of bringing in Myers to face lefties, maybe try a few righties, who knows they may get a couple out and convince the manager that a pitcher throwing well out of the bullpen doesn't have to be a closer to face batters from both sides of the plate. I am happy they got rid of Gonzalez for a week. I think they should either bring back Aardsma or Masset. I just think if you want to look at Myers for next season which is what this is, how he throws in spring training would be a far better indicator of where he'll be at next season than what he does now, especially if he's a guy who would be pitching for a job.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 08:41 AM) IMO, Myers with a 3.00 ERA who can get lefties out, plus what the sox can get in a trade for Thornton would be >> than thornton with a +5.00 ERA who can't get lefties out. The sox can get a close look at Myers and see if he's a fit for the 2008 bullpen. Additionally, the Sox can use Logan in the 7th, 8th innings vs. lefties and righties--ie, Thorton's role. So Logan gets more experience, which is very important going into 2008. He'd take over as the top LH set up man. Right now, if a young LHP was called up like Vasquez or Reynoso, they'd probably get lit up. They don't seem to have the control or stuff to be anything more than a LOGGY at this point. Yet when rosters expand in Sept, they'll probably get a shot. and Maybe Phillips in a relief role as well. Once again I ask what does Myers' performance the rest of this season have anything to do with how he will perform in 2008? Politte and Cotts were good at this time in 2005, what did that mean for 2006? Thornton, MacDougal, Masset, and Aardsma were pretty good the final month or so of 2006, what did that translate to in 2007? The Sox should give their young pitchers the innings they are giving Myers to get some experience. Myers should take some time off, and the Sox should have invited him to spring training.