Dick Allen

The big problem with trading Garland is who replaces the 200 innings? Rookies tend to struggle, Contreras won't be any younger next year, and there will be questions about how many innings Danks can throw. Can Vazquez keep up with what he's doing? There were a lot of questions in 2005 as well. I think unless KW gets someone to take Contreras' entire contract, that Garland is gone.

Wily Mo is 11 months older than Josh Fields. He's had a couple of decent statistical years. I wouldn't write him off. I'd rather have Dye, but if the Sox weren't going to sign him, I'd rather have Wily Mo than the draft picks.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 08:39 AM) To guage the value of Garland's worth start with the fact he has never missed a start and he throws about 200 innings. The prospect NOT THE REALITY of this scenario got Gil Meche a really nice deal. Garland in the NL wold be very successful. Sounds like a certain Venezuelan who was traded to Philadelphia last winter. Garland's performance the balance of this season is going to come into play. Garcia won 17 games and makes $10 million. Garland will make $12 million and is complaining about a knot in his shoulder. I think the return will be about the same, although Garland most likely won't tank like Garcia.

dadgummit

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) I don't know if anyone has really noticed, but Garland has been as bad, or worse than, Jose Contreras over the last couple of months. Should we be thinking about dumping both Contreras and Garland after this season? Or maybe keeping Contreras and dealing Garland, as he would be a FA after 2008 anyway? Maybe in hindsite should we have taken the Astros deal without Hunter Pence, and kept McCarthy? Thoughts? Garland makes $12 million next year, and is going to want even more per year after. I think its an upset if KW doesn't at least try to deal him this winter. If he continues to get shelled, that may be a difficult task, especially if you are looking for a big return.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 05:48 PM) The injury to Sweeney couldn't have come at a worse time for him. he could very well be getting an on the job audition if he doesn't hurt himself. Instead he has given guys like Fields (in LF at least) and Owens the chance pass him on the depth chart in the OF. While those guys may have passed him for now, Sweeney is a favorite of both Ozzie and KW. The injury is unfortunate, but unlike some, he'll still get every opportunity to show what he's got. I still think he's going to be a real good player.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) I don't mind the move at all. As Beck said, if Myers can pitch well and get back to that 06 Yankee form, it gives us options in regards to Thornton, who could be dealt to help bring in a SS for example. But what does Myers performance the rest of this season have to do with how he will perform next year? I'd rather get some young guy up who could use some experience and invite Myers to spring training. Swapping out Thornton for Myers does not strengthen the bullpen IMO.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) Isn't this argument sort of a false choice? Either Uribe sucks ass, or no: it's Fields! How about: Uribe is at the very best underachieving and at the worst lazy and mentally distracted? Or: Fields has a lot of potential and can swing the big stick but he's also a ROOKIE? I wouldn't say that. I just think if you think Uribe is garbage, I think Fields needs to show you a little more to be categorized as a future star.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 02:12 PM) There are 26 SS's in baseball with a qualifying number of at bats. Juan Uribe is 24th out of those 26 in OPS. Tony Pena Jr. and Omar Vizquel are the only 2 worse than him in all of baseball with the bat. There are 37 3rd basemen in baseball who have had over 250 plate appearances at that position. Josh Fields' OPS is 21nd out of those. At the worst, therefore, Josh has put up average offensive #'s for a 3rd baseman this season, in his first 1/2 season in the bigs. So Uribe is the 24th SS and he's garbage while Fields is the 21st 3rd baseman and he's a star that Crede be non-tendered to make room for. Disregard defense and its still not that clear of an argument.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) Fields is putting up a .755 ops as a rookie, that's pretty damn impressive. And yes, those 14 homers in 245 ab's is pretty freakin good as well. Uribe on the other hand has an ops about 100 points lower than Fields and while Fields should and will definitely improve, Uribe seems to be declining. Those two really don't compare offensively. Uribe is a SS. His replacement's OPS probably won't be that high either. While one would think Fields would improve there is no guarantee. I'm not arguing Fields vs. Uribe per se, I just have a hard time figuring out why one is a lock to be a star while the other one is garbage. Look at Uribe's first 275 abs

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) Ah yes, comparing 265 AB's to just under 3000(2974)...... From the start of 2006, Uribe is batting .230 with a .267 OBP, a .671 OPS, has not played "Uribe" type defense, and is set to make 5 million next season. I know you have some sort of hard on for Uribe, along with some sort of grudge to Fields, but it's easy to see where the "garbage" references come from with Uribe. Maybe he will get better, but paycheck aside, if Uribe's performance is "garbage", the same can be said about Fields. I don't think either have been garbage, but I do think while he's not the greatest, Uribe is way undervalued around here, and Fields at this point is overrated because he's hit some homers. I would have no problem with Uribe being replaced if it were someone who actually was better. Greene is not better. Furcal may be, but is he $8 million better? Tejada is better, but Eckstein?

Coming into yesterday's game, Fields had an OBP this season .001 higher than Uribe's lifetime OBP yet Fields is a star and Uribe is garbage.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) So was he experiencing this same "tightness" from '00-'04? Either way, he's maddeningly inconsistent. Those seasons he was very young.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 11:43 AM) Huh, wouldn't the same go for the hitting? I know you want to get "at bats", but isn't there a BIG difference between having somebody hit off of a major league ready pitcher and hit off of a AA guy? So doesn't it make sense to just keep all of your starters out of the B game level? The whole thing just sounds of doing something different just to do something different. Contreras was the only guy in the rotation until Garland blew up that you could say underperformed this season, and he was outstanding in the spring.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) Or perhaps he's just not as good a pitcher as '05 suggested. Ozzie made Garland after Jerry Manuel nearly ruined him, if you want to believe everything you hear and read. Garland goes on rolls. His shoulder was tight the first half last season and he was battered, and it was tight the second half this one with the same result. When it was "loose" he was outstanding. I wonder if there's a bigger problem than a knot.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Article on the White Sox site, Guillen stating he wants starting pitchers to pitch in spring games vs. B games to get them more ready for April. I can vouch for what he says about scouts at the B games and the back fields ... sometimes a couple dozen are in attendance. http://whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?y...sp&c_id=cws Hawk has always praised Ozzie for finding a ton of playing time for minor leaguers in spring training games. I wonder if he will praise him now for making his frontline pitchers travel.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 08:26 AM) It makes a lot of sense when you look at this--- http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5650 Thornton could be moved for a decent player, and be replaced with Myers, if Myers does decent. He's a had a track record vs. lefties over his career--moreso than Thornton. The guy just got released and apparently no contenders even want him. If the Sox released Thornton, a contender would grab him in a heartbeat.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) It's moments like this where I just have to wonder, would it REALLY be that difficult to take this amount and place it towards players in the amateur draft who may be seeking an overslot bonus of a hundred thousand or so? Or even a lower round pick or 2 that would sign for an extra $30k and could turn into something. With all the teams looking for relief help, a team in last place with no playoff chance signs this guy. I wonder if this means Thornton is out of here either now or this offseason. I would much prefer Thornton to Myers. This signing makes less sense than the Jeff Nelson signing last year.

A 38 year old LOOGY who can't get out left hand hitters anymore who evidently no contending teams wanted for league minimum. This really is a ridiculous signing.

Get those playoff invoices out.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:59 PM) I know it's bad to over-react concerning young prospects, but my gawd Owens just swings through the ball so many times. Whiff. Ditto Richar who is starting to resemble Bee Bee Richard. The Sox have so many holes for next year as they get passed by the Royals in the standings. I don't know what KW is going to do. There's the potential for one of the worst teams in Sox history if the starting rotation starts to pitch the way Jon pitched today and Jose has pitched and Danks has pitched. A glass half full guy would see positive signs in Richar, Owens, Fields. A glass half empty guy would see bad defense in Fields and a lotta strikeouts in all our young hitters. Man I don't know about this team. But I am starting to think Owens can't hit. Look at the bright side, the Sox back-up catchers have driven in 2 runs this season. That's pretty impressive.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) Crede is guaranteed $4 million no matter what his situation is. Because of his agent, he's going to ask for a raise. Mark Prior did the exact same thing after last year as well He can ask for a raise but if he goes to arbitration its all going to come down to whose figure is closer to the arbitrator's value of him. He probably settle for a nominal bump from this year's figure.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:56 PM) Whether we like it or not, here is the simple fact right now. The value of Crede + Broadway Joe Crede has negative value because he will cost you $4+ million next year with no real knowledge that he is healthy. Trading Crede + Broadway will NOT bring a "Decent return". If Crede shows in spring training that he's healthy, a $4 million or $5 million contract will make him very attractive. I really wonder if Broadway has any value.

The question is what kind of no trade did he get? He hinted if traded its like he got a 3 year deal. Its $9.5 million next season. If he has a big year, they can trade him for a s***load because he will essentially have 2 years left on his deal. This is a good deal as long as Dye has at least one good season in him.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 10:39 AM) I disagree, he's worse than that. I wonder what he would do over a full season of play. I'm guessing .241/.263/.270 with about 40 Stolen bases which Ozzie would use to justify playing him. Football players everywhere must cringe at his slugging pct.