StrangeSox

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) LOL, nothing like a 4% difference when surveying less than 80k kids who volunteered responses. The category "drugs" is comical. Native Americans apparently get the most favorable treatment from police. Horribly conducted research is what you should have posted. 80k is actually a huge sample size. I'm glad you've been able to determine that this research was "horribly conducted" though. Regardless, this isn't the only study that has found drug usage rates for black people to be equal or lower than white people, and incarceration rates are undeniably hugely different.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) Not every single person that spoke to the issue was so specific to mention the distance of 20+ feet, but some did. The distance of 20+ feet doesn't really matter in the sense that there isn't really a cutoff for a specific distance Brown had to be moving towards Wilson before self-defense becomes justifiable. It's not like self-defense is less justifiable if he had only moved 10 feet, given that he was within 12 feet when the fatal shot was fired. I don't recall the previous autopsy reports and discussions about them saying anything about how far away the fatal shot was. I haven't seen anything to that effect yet other than Wilson's testimony. Is there something shown by the physical evidence that supports that? I don't think self defense is justified if Brown is staggering a couple of steps forward with his hands up/out. If he's charging at him, that's a different story.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) Dozens of people = analysts on CNN, Fox News, ABC News, newspapers, websites who have all directly read all/most of the grand jury documents and agree that it's clear from the documents that Brown had moved and was still moving towards Wilson when the fatal shot was fired. I didn't write down all the names or the links. Even some of the ones who think Wilson should have been indicted have agreed to that particular fact, which is quite unbelievable to me but whatever. You're shifting your claim here. I wouldn't be pressing so hard on that simple statement and have in fact acknowledged that multiple times in this thread. But you have made a much stronger statement that Brown was unequivocally charging at Wilson and did so for at least 21 feet and that forensic evidence rules out testimony that he was surrendering. Those are two very different claims.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) Based on what? Research http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/stud...gs-than-blacks/

Could you even bother to cite those "dozens of people" who all agree without a doubt that Brown charged Wilson? Do you know what evidence they're actually basing that conclusion on and why you should trust their evaluation?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) So you don't actually have any citations, haven't bothered to read it yourself, but you know with absolute certainty that charges should have been brought. At least I have listened to the words of dozens of people who HAVE read it and have no doubt what it says. That's funny. When you first started saying with absolute certainty that Brown charged Wilson from 21 feet way, I was the one who went to the trouble of tracking down a CNN clip of what you were talking about and going into the GJ testimony that was referenced. I don't think you ever commented on that post. Who are these "dozens of people" who have read all of the evidence released and have "no doubt" that it says Michael Brown charged Darren Wilson from 21+ feet away? edit: the evidence that I have seen seems to pretty easily clear the "probable cause" hurdle for an indictment, yes. I don't know if it would clear a "beyond a reasonable doubt" hurdle in a full trial, but that's not the burden at this level. If there is actual, concrete evidence that Brown charged Wilson, I would change my opinion. Just saying "it's somewhere in those hundreds of pages and dozens of documents" isn't going to change anyone's minds, though.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:57 AM) The citation is the big-ass document that the county released. I don't have time to dig through it and find it for you. Everybody else has accepted the word of those who have actually read it that it's in there, if that isn't good enough for you, then read it yourself. So you don't actually have any citations, haven't bothered to read it yourself, but you know with absolute certainty that no charges should have been brought, Brown charged Wilson from at least 21 feet away, and "everybody else" accepts these claims. Ok, buddy.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) All of the witnesses, that I've read, agree that he was moving toward the officer. Some say he was "charging" others say he was waling with his hands up. But all agree he was moving toward him. Right, I've said that several witnesses said he was either walking or staggering forward with his arms up or out. That's a pretty important distinction from Wilson's claim that he was charging at him head-first and seemed to be "bulking up" with every bullet.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) You're not taking anybody's word other than your own, so why the f*** are you even still here? I've asked you repeatedly for simple citations to what you keep claiming as damn near 100% guarantees of Wilson's justifications and you just keep saying "forensic evidence" and "witness testimony."

I'm not taking the second-hand word of an anonymous retired forensic chemist as the final word on how close Brown was when he was shot or if he had been moving.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) Is that documented evidence only for that area? Possibly, but I'm speaking as a trend nationally. Yes. For example, black people are actually less likely than white people to use drugs but face prosecution and incarceration for drug use at much higher levels.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) Combination of the forensic evidence and the testimony of Wilson plus several others. What forensic evidence? Where can we see the actual evidence or a review of that evidence by an expert witness and not just a reference to it in a GJ question? Why are you privileging Wilson and the "several others'" (no firm number? how are you so sure then?) testimony above other conflicting testimony?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) No I read it. It's not a shock to me that in poor areas with more crime there are more cops policing the area, making more arrests, handing out tickets, etc. That's how police police. You know the best way to curb that cycle? Get people in the community to stop committing crimes, necessitating cops. You know what's not the answer? Blaming cops for being racist. I am skeptical that you read a 14,000 word article in the 8 minutes it took you to respond. Even if you did eventually finish it, it seems pretty clear you didn't go in with an open mind to try to understand a different point of view. Oh well.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:17 AM) It wasn't immediate. Brown moved 20+ feet before falling. Wilson had a pretty clear reason to believe he was in serious danger if he didn't shoot. are you still basing this entirely off of a question asked by the grand juror or is there something more concrete than that in the document dump?

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) If you get pulled over and your credentials get run and they come up suspended, a warrant, or not valid for any reason it gets dealt with the same way no matter what color you are. Its not like they said, well Jimmy we see a warrant for your arrest and you have a suspended license but I see you went to Sandburg, live in Orland, and are white so have a nice day and don't do it again. The same with insurance. You need valid insurance to drive a car. If you don't have a valid license, have a warrant or no insurance then don't drive a car. That's not a poverty violation. Driving is a privilege not a right. The same with expired plates and registration. Many of these things are made worse by poverty and then quickly compound, as the article points out. Getting pulled over because you can't afford to fix a broken tail light or a cracked windshield but you still need the car to drive to work is a "poverty violation." There's also the documented statistical difference in how frequently black people are pulled over for minor infractions versus white people. This also applies to being too poor to be in an area regardless of color, as that happened to my wife and I once.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) Oh, so she broke the law and got tickets like everyone else does. How terrible! I'd agree with a more general "municipalities profit from people" argument. I've been saying that for years. So did you bother to read the whole article or just enough to come up with a reason to ignore it?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) Looking at this topic from a historical perspective, why would you expect it? Going to link this Radley Balko (libertarian, long-time scholar at Cato, has written about police militarization and abuse for years) article about how municipalities and police forces in St. Louis County profit from the poor and particularly black poor again, because it should really give everyone an understanding of where this distrust comes from. These people are living in a Kafka novel. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-wat...s-from-poverty/

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:37 AM) Yes, there is a lack of accountability, and cooperation in the communities where overwhelmingly a majority of crimes are committed. We live in Chicago, where there has been 155 homicides since Michael Brown was killed and 74% of those were black males, 29 were teenagers. Of those homicides 5 were committed by the CPD in case we were still outraged at the police killing people. That didn't answer my question, though. Is there really a lack of policing and prosecution in majority black communities like you originally claimed? Every time black people get upset with what they perceive as a case of racial injustice, someone will inevitably bring up "black-on-black crime!" as if that argument hasn't been addressed a thousand times before and if there aren't a bunch of people working every day dedicated to that issue, protests/marches about it, etc.

Random fact: in 1866, Mississippi spent 1/5 of the entire state budget on artificial limbs caused by the civil war:

lol

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) You should write a summary on that and leave it as your post as its literally the only thing you continue to push. Uh yeah that's kind of what all of the protests and discussions are about. If you've missed that it's about a long and building distrust of the justice system as a whole especially among a lot of black communities, you've missed most of the story. There's a lack of policing and prosecution in predominately black communities?

I would dump this in the other thread but it got locked, not related to Ferguson: COLORADO MAN ARRESTED AFTER AIMING BANANA AT DEPUTIES Dumb joke? Sure. Two felony counts? Sad to see prosecutors around the country embracing this heightened standard for pressing charges didn't last long.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) yet you still want to hang onto the hope that Brown was surrendering when shot when no evidence or reliable witness statements shows that. but keep pushing that MSM fed narrative. I don't know why you think the accounts of Brown surrendering are conclusively unreliable while all of the accounts of Brown charging are legit.

I went into a RadioShack yesterday to get a resistor. It was....depressing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 26, 2014 -> 10:04 AM) They're supposed to be given facts and determine if probable cause exists for the charge. That necessitates some credibility analysis and comparing evidence A and B together. We all know he could have gotten an indictment if he wanted, or he could have charged him if he wanted. Just because he didn't and he wanted that conclusion to be validated by a grand jury with all the evidence he had, doesn't mean it was some corrupt process. And let's face it: no matter what happened here - he brought charges, he got an indictment, or it goes to trial and Wilson wins, you all would STILL be pissed off about it. You're just latching on to this GJ thing to further your conspiracy theory that Wilson, a cold blooded murderer, shot a saintly, innocent, unarmed black kid, and the powers at be are protecting him to further their racist aims. It's another example of the "epidemic" you believe is happening across the country of white cops killing black kids because racism. Wrong. I was disappointed with the Zimmerman verdict and don't think his series of actions should be legal, but I wasn't 'pissed off about it' and think it's more a problem of what is actually legal. I don't have a conspiracy that Wilson was a cold-blooded murderer or that Brown was saintly or innocent. Wilson was panicked and, I think, unjustifiable killed an unarmed black kid. Pro-police and anti-black institutional bias combined from the start to make Brown look as bad as possible while making Wilson look as good as possible. I don't know that there's an endemic of "white cops killing black kids," and if there is, my position would be a lot more nuanced than "because racism." But that really does reiterate that, for whatever reason, you just don't get why people (be they dopes on SoxTalk or people in Ferguson/around the country) are upset and lose faith with the justice system.